Meet the Press – July 31, 2022 – NBC News

CHUCK TODD:

This Sunday: A big deal.

PRES. JOE BIDEN:

We're taking a giant step forward as a nation.

CHUCK TODD:

Joe Manchin and Democrats finally agree on a bill to spend billions on climate, energy, health care and to cut the deficit.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

I've never been in reverse in my lifetime, and I never walked away.

CHUCK TODD:

It's a political win, but do Democrats have the votes they need?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

We'll all be talking, and hopefully we'll have 50 votes.

CHUCK TODD:

I'll talk to the man at the center of it all, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Plus, Senate Republicans block a bill they formerly supported to help veterans exposed to toxic burn pits.

JON STEWART:

Im used to the lies. Im used to the hypocrisy. But I am not used to the cruelty.

CHUCK TODD:

Democrats say Republicans switched their votes because they were angry about the Manchin deal. I'll talk to veterans advocate and comedian Jon Stewart on the politics of helping vets. Also, those catastrophic floods in Kentucky.

DAVE HARRIS:

Never in my life have we seen it come up that fast.

CHUCK TODD:

Dozens dead, thousands without power or water, in some of the worst flooding in Kentucky's history.

RONNIE SLONE:

Everybody tries to help, but when it comes this fast it's theres ain't nothing you can do.

CHUCK TODD:

We'll get the latest from Kentucky's governor, Andy Beshear. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief White House correspondent Kristen Welker, former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo, Democratic strategist Adrienne Elrod and White House Bureau Chief for Politico Jonathan Lemire. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press.

ANNOUNCER:

From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.

CHUCK TODD:

Good Sunday morning. We're going to get to all the politics, my interviews with Joe Manchin and Jon Stewart, all of that in just a moment. But we need to begin with this historic flooding in eastern Kentucky. It's the worst flooding there in decades. It's left dozens dead. Four children from one family are dead. Officials expect the number to rise in the days ahead. As of yesterday, some 1,300 people had been rescued by air or boat. Fourteen counties have been declared disaster areas, and tens of thousands of homes are either without power, running water, or both. Sadly, more rain is in the forecast. Now, climate experts say global warming is -- has not increased the number of floods. But what it has increased is their severity due to more powerful rainstorms. This is extreme weather in action. I'm joined now by Kentucky's governor, Andy Beshear. Governor Beshear, sadly, this is not the first time I've had you lead off our show due to natural disasters in your state. First, give me an update. You have expressed fear this death toll is going to rise. What is the status this morning?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR:

It's tough. This is one of the most devastating, deadly floods that we have seen in our history. It wiped out areas where people didnt have that much to begin with. And, at a time that we're trying to dig out, it's raining. I'm about two hours from the first hard-hit county, and it is really raining. And it's going to continue to rain throughout today. Our death toll right now is at 26. But I know of several additional bodies, and we know it's going to grow. With the level of water, we're going to be finding bodies for weeks, many of them swept hundreds of yards, maybe a quarter mile plus from where they were lost. Thus far, just those four children. I fear that we'll find at least a couple more as well. Water, a big problem with some of these areas, power. And even when we get over the rain, it's going to be really hot in this next week. So we are still in an emergency phase. Even as we work towards what it's going to take to get people stable, we got our first travel trailers to help shelter people as well as opening up our state parks. Have been seeing some reason progress on that, so at least one good sign.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you have a sense of how many people are missing? Because you obviously fear this death toll. I mean, is there a sense that you have your arms around that?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR:

Now it's really hard when the answer is probably no. Cell phone service still incredibly spotty. And in some of these hollers, think gullies, we don't have a firm count of how many people were there to begin with, how many people were visiting. We have multiple Kentucky state police posts that are taking calls from loved ones that can't connect with those that they are worried about. But it's going to take some time to get a firm grasp on that. We still can't get in to some areas to check on people. We're doubling our National Guard. We're going to work to go door to door, work to find, again, as many people as we can. We're even going to work through the rain. But the weather is complicating it.

CHUCK TODD:

Anything you're not getting from the federal government that you're still asking for?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR:

Federal government has been responsive. The FEMA administrator was there on day two, on the ground. The president called and said, "Whatever you need." I said, "Mr. President, we need individual assistance, whereby people can apply directly to FEMA." He got that done in about three days. I haven't seen that before. And I'm grateful for it. Definitely cut through a lot of red tape there.

CHUCK TODD:

Look, you said you don't know why Kentucky's been hit more than others. Obviously, these extreme weather instances are becoming more frequent. You had tornadoes in December, right? We don't usually see that in December. This flooding is worse than we've ever seen. What about long term? What do you need for mitigation, for adaptation? Because it's pretty clear these extreme storms are not going to end soon.

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR:

Well, we have to build back stronger. We've got to make sure that our roads, our bridges, our culverts, our flood walls can withstand greater intensity. A lot of this has to do as well with water and wastewater systems that get overwhelmed. You know, rural water is already such a tough issue. The infrastructure is so expensive. I will say that both ARPA and the bipartisan infrastructure bill are a good start. They're helping us do things before this that we haven't been able to do before. But if we truly want to be more resilient, it is going to take a major federal investment, as well as here in the state. We're ready to do our part.

CHUCK TODD:

Governor Beshear, I know it's never easy to deal with situations like this. We're all thinking about you, and we hope this ends soon.

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR:

Thank you.

CHUCK TODD:

If you want to be helpful here to the Kentucky flood victims, the governor's office suggests contributing to the Team Eastern Kentucky Flood Relief Fund. I know that's a big URL there. You can find that web address on the Meet the Press Twitter and Facebook pages. Let's turn now to politics. Senator Joe Manchin breathed some new life into the Democrats' reconciliation bill and into Joe Biden's presidency when he agreed to hundreds of billions to fund climate programs and bring down the cost of healthcare. The helpfully named Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, cobbled together with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, also calls for increased tax revenues from high earners and businesses to help trim the deficit. It's a long way from the president's far more ambitious Build Back Better plan. And Democrats still need to pass it without any Republican help paging Kyrsten Sinema? Plus, the good news stops there because the administration has had to argue that we're not in a recession, despite a second straight quarter of negative economic growth that usually foreshadows a recession. Still, as Democrats face strong headwinds in November, this deal gives Mr. Biden a big victory to brag about and Democrats an unexpected success they can campaign on because disaffected Democratic voters needed a reason to turn out in November.

[START TAPE]

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:

I think we must stay in session for as long as it takes to get this plan done.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY:

We're in a recession, and it's not the time to increase taxes or spending. It's going to feed the fires of inflation.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

And joining me now is Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Senator Manchin, welcome back to Meet the Press.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

Always good to be with you, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, so let me just start with this. Two weeks ago, you said you were adamant. You needed to see the July inflation numbers before you were ready to talk about this bigger budget bill with the Democrats called reconciliation. And then abruptly, you didn't need to see those inflation numbers. What changed your mind?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

It wasn't abruptly, Chuck. We've been working and negotiating off and on very quietly because I didn't know if it'd ever come to fruition. I didn't want to go through the drama that -- eight months ago that we went through for so long, thinking we'll negotiate it, got close, and then it fell apart, and this and that. Never could get there on Build Back Better. It just was too much, and I never could get there. On this one here, we started in April and kept working, and working, and working, and back and forth. And all of a sudden, inflation went from six, to 8.1, to 9.1, and I said, "Hey, Chuck, listen: We'd better wait and let's see what's coming in July, numbers coming in August before we do anything more." And that was the point of where we had been talking and negotiating. And that's when Chuck got upset with me, and I understand that. And he says, "Oh, here we go again," and everything. I said, "No, Chuck." I said, "I'm just being very cautious. I'm not going to be responsible for inflaming the inflation rates. I'm just not going to do it." So then we got a hot weekend. We all cooled off a little bit and talked on Monday. And I said, "Chuck, I've never walked away. We're still working on it." And he says, "Well, okay. Let's do it." And I said, "Well, let's start talking." So to Chuck's credit, our staffs kept talking. We didn't know if we were going to get there or not. But the bottom line was is we reduced it and scrubbed it clear down to 739. Nothing inflammatory in that piece of legislation.

CHUCK TODD:

The initial criticism of this bill from Republicans is, in some ways to some people, a predictable response, which is simply this: You should not increase any taxes during a time of recession. Why is now the right time to hit certain businesses with a tax hike?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

First of all, Chuck, I agree with my Republican friends. We should not increase taxes, and we did not increase taxes, Chuck. That's what we scrubbed out from that Thursday when we shut down, until we started talking again on Monday. The only thing we have done is basically say that every corporation of a billion dollars of value or greater in America should pay at least 15% a minimum corporate tax. Many people in West Virginia dont, couldn't believe that corporations aren't paying anything, and some of the largest in the country. And with that being said, the rate was at 35% in 2017 when my Republican friends took it to 21. We thought it should stop at 25. It went to 21, a 14% savings. You would at least think that they would be paying at least 15%. Most businesses and all corporations that I know pay 21%. So that's not a tax increase. It's closing a loophole.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, I understand that, but one person's loophole is another person whose tax bill increased. And, you know, the folks over at the National Association of Manufacturers, and look, they're not going to like any, anything that increases their tax bill. I understand that. But here's their main argument. They say, by doing this, you threaten to stifle the very innovation this bill is supposed to spur because if you create that tax penalty and you don't get the credit for investments, then all of a sudden, you dont see that -- they'll make the decision not to invest. Do you buy that argument?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

I don't because I'll tell you why. The last two years have been massive, record profits. Massive, record profits. And with that being said, it's been the lowest investment of capital expenditure that we've ever had. So it's not the taxes thats driving this. What's driving people sitting on their money right now is a lack of confidence that we can't get our act together in Congress or government. And they don't have a confidence there, so what we have done is we have total permitting reform. That's the thing everyone has told me. When I've asked them point blank, they said, "If you can just take the leashes off, take the chains off of us, let us go and do it." So we're going to basically reform our permitting so we're able to get these projects completed that are needed now.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you trust -- I know that was the promise you got, and it's one of those where you were promised a bill later. You support reconciliation now, you're going to get permitting reform later. Why did you not insist on permitting reform first before you gave, gave them your vote for reconciliation?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

We would have done permitting reform in this bill but basically because of the Byrd bath and because of reconciliation being around finances, it did not fit. So with that we have an agreement -- from Speaker Pelosi to Majority Leader Schumer to President Biden we all have made an agreement on this. And you know what, if someone doesn't fulfill, if I don't fulfill my commitment, promise that I will vote and support this bill with all my heart, there's consequences, and there's consequences on both sides. So I have all the trust and faith that this will be accomplished. We'll get this done. And if not, we both are going to face some consequences.

CHUCK TODD:

Speaker Pelosi and Chuck Schumer can keep their word, and the bill still wouldnt -- and it's possible the bill still doesn't pass. So what are the consequences if you don't get your permitting reform because they don't have the votes?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

Well, as I've said before, theres other avenues and vehicles that we can use. And I've been committed. I've been promised. And I do believe, and I trust. And if any of us don't keep our promises, then there are consequences to pay for this. I don't think that's going to happen at all, Chuck. There's too much at stake here. This is the greatest investment we've ever had in energy security. Energy security, and also investment in the innovation in technology that we need for the fuels of the future. This is an all-American bill red, white, and blue all the way through.

CHUCK TODD:

Now the name of this bill, some would argue, is a bit misleading: the Inflation Reduction Act. Can you explain where in this bill inflation will be reduced for folks in the next six months?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

Well, first of all, we've got the highest gas prices right now. Inflation is killing. It's hurting everyone in West Virginia right now, and it's hurting all working people across America. And if you want to get the gasoline prices down, you've got to produce your way out of it. We've got to bring more manufacturing to, back to America. And let me tell you what the bill does. It gives us a strong fossil energy that's going to produce the cleanest forms of fossil energy in the world. That's carbon reduction when you're replacing the dirtiest oil right now that's going into the climate and atmosphere. That's something we can do. You producing in America, we become energy independent, you're going to reduce because of supply. Next of all, we pay $300 billion down on debt. 300 billion, the first time in 25 years, Chuck, that we've ever done this. Next of all, we're reducing $288 billion in drug prices because of what we're doing. This is a bill that basically does everything. If someone says it's not going to reduce inflation, my goodness, we've never done anything like it. We didn't raise taxes. We've paid down debt. We've done everything, and we've accelerated our permitting processing so we can get things on the market and to market quicker.

CHUCK TODD:

Look, I understand it doesn't add, I understand it doesn't add to inflation, but here's what the folks at Penn Wharton said. They said, "The impact on inflation is statistically indistinguishable from zero." Isn't calling it the Inflation Reduction Act sort of politically cynical and a bit misleading?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

Not at all. If you're producing more and have more supply, and that supply drives -- basically satisfies demand, and then the prices come down because theres more people shopping for the products, that's capitalism. That's who we are. We haven't done that. If we're able to bring things to market quicker, they're not looking at the long game at all. But, you know, Chuck, you talk to different economists, they all have a different opinion. They told me the 17 laureate -- Nobel laureates were saying that it was going to be transition, transition. And you know what? It wasn't transitory. It was permanent. We have a serious problem in inflation, and we've got to defeat it.

CHUCK TODD:

Are you convinced that Senator Sinema is going to support this bill? Or if she ends up changing some parts of the tax structure because she votes with Republicans, would that impact your support of this reconciliation package?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

Let me say that Kyrsten Sinema's a friend of mine, and we work very close together. She has a tremendous, tremendous input in this piece of legislation. This is things that everyone has worked on over the last eight months or more. And she basically insisted that no tax increases, we've done that. She was very, very adamant about that, and I support and I agree with her. She was also very instrumental in making sure that we had drug prices that Medicare could compete on certain drugs to bring it down so that there wouldn't be an impact on individuals, on Medicare across. She's done all this, so she has a tremendous amount of input in this piece of legislation. And I would like to think she would be favorable towards it, but I respect her decision. She'll make her own decision based on the contents.

CHUCK TODD:

Senator Manchin, what's your case for Democrats

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

She's a dear friend of mine, I respect her.

CHUCK TODD:

Whats your case for Democrats to keep control of the House and Senate this election year?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN:

I dont know, I just -- if you look back through history, it makes it very difficult, especially in the most toxic times we've ever seen. So it's up in the air right now. With the House, it looks like the House is --

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Meet the Press - July 31, 2022 - NBC News