But this leads to the second point, which is that dissent can still be important in cases where the interventionists are initially correct. Our decision to topple the Taliban in 2001, for instance, remains the right and necessary call in hindsight, notwithstanding the debacles that followed. But that didnt make Lees dissenting vote any less important because it anticipated the disaster of our nation-building effort, the over-expansive application of the authorization to use military force, the various abuses of presidential power in the War on Terror.
Likewise, in the current moment theres no way to know for sure whether Thomas Massies libertarian warnings about the Houses measures that theyre overly broad, escalatory and liable to presidential abuse will be borne out by events. But its entirely possible for arming Ukraine to be good policy and for Massie to be right that some elements of the American response to Russian aggression could go badly or disastrously astray.
Finally, dissent matters because the potential scale of a disastrous outcome in a conflict with Russia is so much greater than even the worst-case scenarios in other recent wars. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that because of the Biden administrations caution, theres only a 5 percent chance that our support for Ukraine leads to unexpected escalation, to the American militarys direct involvement in the war. Whereas if you looked at the Bush administrations policy toward Iraq in late 2002, you would have said that the odds of a war for regime change in that case were well over 50 percent.
On that level, the Biden policy seems much safer for a cautious realist to support. But that hypothetical 5 percent risk carries with it some still-more-fractional risk of nuclear escalation, which is a much more existential danger than even the more disastrous scenarios for Iraq. That has to create its own distinctive set of calculations. Even if the Biden policy is the best course, you still need an unusual level of vigilance, a somewhat hyperactive caution, around the possibility of escalation. And here the anticipatory critique of elite failure that were getting from the populists becomes valuable: Not because it will necessarily be vindicated, but because even a small risk of elite folly is worth worrying over when nuclear weapons are potentially involved.
For a practical example of that folly from Republican politics, consider the G.O.P. Senate primary in Ohio, where J.D. Vance has been running as a populist traitor to the intelligentsia that helped make his Hillbilly Elegy a best seller. (Full disclosure: I used to have long conversations with Vance about the future of the G.O.P., if youd like to hold me responsible for the tone of his campaign.) That populist pitch has included a strong dose of anti-interventionism, which led him to declare his indifference to what happens to Ukraine, relative to domestic concerns, just before Vladimir Putin gave the order to invade.
Its a comment that has been highlighted and condemned by populisms critics since the invasion, and in the recent Republican Senate debate Vance took predictable fire over the issue. But in the same debate the two candidates who are seemingly ahead of him in the polls, Mike Gibbons and Josh Mandel, both endorsed an improbable halfway kind of escalation a no-fly zone somehow imposed by Europeans rather than Americans, with the idea that this would thread the needle between thwarting Russia and accidentally starting World War III.
It was an idea that only Vance wholeheartedly condemned, and he was right. Under wartime conditions, the escalatory fantasies of his rivals have our European allies close Ukraines skies, and then when they get into a shooting war with Russia, we do what? carry a more immediate risk than the dangers of populist indifference, the flaws of isolationist dissent.
Here is the original post:
Opinion | Why We Need Wartime Dissent - The New York Times
- Why Libertarians Are Idiots. - Video [Last Updated On: September 7th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 7th, 2012]
- Libertarianism Vs. Socialism with Austin Petersen - Video [Last Updated On: September 7th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 7th, 2012]
- "Libertarian" Ron Paul Exposes His True Self: a Corporate Feudalist - Video [Last Updated On: September 7th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 7th, 2012]
- Ask a Libertarian Lightning Round: Recalls, Libertarian Paternalism, [Last Updated On: September 7th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 7th, 2012]
- Ask a Libertarian Lightning Round: Libertarianism in Pop Culture [Last Updated On: September 7th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 7th, 2012]
- Gary Johnson invigorates the Libertarian vote [Last Updated On: September 21st, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 21st, 2012]
- Breitbart Writer Begs Libertarians To Vote Romney — Sorry, It Ain’t Going To Work [Last Updated On: September 25th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 25th, 2012]
- Quick Hits: Muse, Christina Aguilera, Nicki Minaj, Outasight, Interpol [Last Updated On: September 30th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 30th, 2012]
- Philip Pilkington: The 19th Century Long Depression: How it Fostered Oligopolistic Capitalism and Serves as a Model ... [Last Updated On: September 30th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 30th, 2012]
- Muse singer rips Glenn Beck for liking his music [Last Updated On: September 30th, 2012] [Originally Added On: September 30th, 2012]
- Myth and Truth About Libertarianism [Last Updated On: October 3rd, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 3rd, 2012]
- What Is Neoclassical Liberalism? [Last Updated On: October 3rd, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 3rd, 2012]
- Glenn Beck's extraordinary open letter to Muse [Last Updated On: October 3rd, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 3rd, 2012]
- Lord Wood of Anfield:the crisis of Conservative values [Last Updated On: October 6th, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 6th, 2012]
- Libertarians are wrong about smoking bans [Last Updated On: October 10th, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 10th, 2012]
- Anonymity and its limits: Reddit v Gawker [Last Updated On: October 15th, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 15th, 2012]
- Friedman on Intolerance: A Critique [Last Updated On: October 16th, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 16th, 2012]
- Libertarianism not likely to yield third party [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- Ayn Rand Institute Bigwigs Piss on Libertarianism, Libertarians Fight Back! [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- 2 comments [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- The Hard Truth About Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- Ayn Rand's First Appearance on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, 1967 - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 960 - Why Libertarianism Fails: Part 1 - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 961 - Why Libertarianism Fails: Part 2 - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 962 - Why Libertarianism Fails: Part 3 - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 672 - Minarchism, Libertarianism and Logic - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 614 - Political Libertarianism: Part 2 - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 613 - Political Libertarianism: Part 1 - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 235 - Libertarianism for the Young: Freedom for the tweens - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 86: Top Ten Myths About Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- FDR 37: What is Libertarianism? - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- THRIVE! 30.1 - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- Norman Barry: Differing Foundations in Libertarian Thought - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- Ron Swanson's Libertarianism - Nothing The Government Does is Important - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- Libertarian Transhumanism - Wiki Article - Video [Last Updated On: October 31st, 2012] [Originally Added On: October 31st, 2012]
- THE CORRECT VIEWS HIT SHARE! I AM SPEAKING AT CONESTOGA NOV 19 - Video [Last Updated On: November 2nd, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 2nd, 2012]
- Parks and Recreation - Ron and Andy Bonding over Politics - Video [Last Updated On: November 2nd, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 2nd, 2012]
- More hypocrisy from the MRAs. - Video [Last Updated On: November 2nd, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 2nd, 2012]
- CONSTITUTION PARTY EXPLAINED! HD - Video [Last Updated On: November 2nd, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 2nd, 2012]
- Dr Stephen Davies: British Individualism and Libertarianism the Past and Today - Video [Last Updated On: November 2nd, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 2nd, 2012]
- Vallentyne and Zwolinski on 'Libertarianism' | Jan Lester - Video [Last Updated On: November 4th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 4th, 2012]
- Libertarianism Is Simple To Describe But Not Simple To Argue For - Video [Last Updated On: November 4th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 4th, 2012]
- Watch Wayne's World (1992) Full Movie Free Online - Video [Last Updated On: November 4th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 4th, 2012]
- American History with George H. Smith, Part Three - Video [Last Updated On: November 4th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 4th, 2012]
- American History with George H. Smith, Part Two - Video [Last Updated On: November 4th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 4th, 2012]
- American History with George H. Smith, Part One - Video [Last Updated On: November 4th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 4th, 2012]
- Liberty conference comes to UNC [Last Updated On: November 5th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 5th, 2012]
- Libertarianism in Ancient China | by Murray N. Rothbard - Video [Last Updated On: November 5th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 5th, 2012]
- Ron Paul, Rothbard and Race 2 of 2 - Video [Last Updated On: November 5th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 5th, 2012]
- Ron Paul, Rothbard and Race 1 of 2 - Video [Last Updated On: November 5th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 5th, 2012]
- Voting: The Seen and the Unseen [Last Updated On: November 7th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 7th, 2012]
- Gary Johnson at the LAST third party debate on RT - Video [Last Updated On: November 7th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 7th, 2012]
- Puerto Rico Will Be The 51st State - Video [Last Updated On: November 9th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 9th, 2012]
- Pro-Market Intervention vs. Free Market Volatility (Libertarian Dilemma) - Video [Last Updated On: November 9th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 9th, 2012]
- Robert Poole and Samuel Konkin: What is a Libertarian? - Video [Last Updated On: November 9th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 9th, 2012]
- Kokesh 1of4 - Video [Last Updated On: November 9th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 9th, 2012]
- Republicans Must Focus on Social Libertarianism to Win Back Voters [Last Updated On: November 11th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 11th, 2012]
- Do You Have a Duty to Vote? - Video [Last Updated On: November 11th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 11th, 2012]
- Free Speach The Non Aggression Principle Voluntaryism Adam Kokesh - Video [Last Updated On: November 11th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 11th, 2012]
- Peter Schiff, Austrian, Libertarianism, Right Wing, FOX Logic. - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Part 4 - Prof. Anderson on Liberalism vs. Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Part 6 - Prof. Anderson on Liberalism vs. Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Part 5 - Prof. Anderson on Liberalism vs. Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Part 2 - Prof. Anderson on Liberalism vs. Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Part 7 - Prof. Anderson on Liberalism vs. Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Part 3 - Prof. Anderson on Liberalism vs. Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Part 1 - Prof. Anderson on Liberalism vs. Libertarianism - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- What Happened to Conservatism? - Video [Last Updated On: November 12th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 12th, 2012]
- Praxis, Praxis, Praxis - a lecture by Patrick M. Byrne - Video [Last Updated On: November 14th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 14th, 2012]
- Milton Friedman: The Future of Freedom - Video [Last Updated On: November 14th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 14th, 2012]
- ExplainIng Obamacare to simplefolk. - Video [Last Updated On: November 14th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 14th, 2012]
- Barrack Obama - The Food Stamps President - Video [Last Updated On: November 14th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 14th, 2012]
- Why Obama Beat Romney - Video [Last Updated On: November 14th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 14th, 2012]
- Templeton, Craig, Shermer, and Rand - Nov. 12, 2012 - Video [Last Updated On: November 16th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 16th, 2012]
- Penn Jillette - On Atheism, Libertarianism, and 9/11 - Video [Last Updated On: November 16th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 16th, 2012]
- The GOP’s Libertarian Problem [Last Updated On: November 18th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 18th, 2012]
- Ron Paul Farewell Speech: What Did He Get Right Over The Course Of His Career? [Last Updated On: November 18th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 18th, 2012]
- National Liberation - Video [Last Updated On: November 18th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 18th, 2012]
- How I Stopped Spanking My Kids: A Fathers' Roundtable - Video [Last Updated On: November 18th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 18th, 2012]
- +Dolan on the Elections [Last Updated On: November 20th, 2012] [Originally Added On: November 20th, 2012]