Bobby Gillespie: For the first 10 years of my life, I lived in a Glasgow tenement that stuff stays with you – The Guardian

Bobby Gillespies memoir, Tenement Kid, starts by documenting Gillespies Glaswegian working-class background and ends in 1991, as Primal Scream prepare to release their Mercury prize-winning album, Screamadelica. As Gillespies final line in the book has it: Some say this is where the 1990s began.

Last month, he and old friend, author and fellow Scot Irvine Welsh, got together to discuss some of the books themes. Gillespie, 60, explained that he was first asked to write his life story a decade ago, and had only just agreed to do it when lockdown struck. Tenement Kid charts Gillespies personal and creative journey, via the prism of punk, rocknroll, acid house and drug-fuelled hedonism. It also delivers a vivid portrait of Gillespies early working-class life, at times permeated with strong anti-Tory sentiment: Of course, says Gillespie, Im from Glasgow, theres got to be.

Gillespies family lived in one room, sharing a bathroom with other families, later moving to a room and kitchen in the same tenement, with the then-family of four sharing a bedroom. For Gillespie, school was a washout, and he was put into a remedial class. Transfixed and transformed by punk, he joined the Wake and then alternative rock band the Jesus and Mary Chain, before focusing solely on Primal Scream. Earlier this year, Gillespie released Utopian Ashes, an album of duets with Savages singer Jehnny Beth.

Edinburgh-born novelist, screenwriter and playwright Irvine Welsh, 63, abandoned a TV repair apprenticeship when he suffered an electric shock and was taken to hospital, but also because he heard Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols: As soon as I heard that, I jacked it in. I thought, my days are numbered here. Welsh published his era-defining novel, Trainspotting, in 1993: I didnt know how to write a novel, I just started writing. Trainspotting followed the lives of heroin-addicted youths (Welsh was himself addicted to heroin for a while). Among his screenplays is Creation Stories, the 2021 biopic of Alan McGee, Gillespies lifelong friend, and cofounder of Creation Records, Primal Screams first label.

Gillespie and Welsh met in the mid-1990s, and have a dense circuitry of connections, and much in common, including their Scottish working-class backgrounds and their cultural immersion in punk and acid house. I listened in as they talked.

Irvine Welsh: Its an incredible achievement to write about working-class life in this way. For anybody whos ever horrible term made it, theres a tendency to either amp up how nasty it was, or to sentimentalise it as the good old days. You avoid that completely: no sentimentality, but total respect as well. Its a fine piece of writing. My question is: how the fuck do you remember all that?

Bobby Gillespie: I just did a splurge. No diaries. I did a timeline from when I was born up until Screamadelica, and I wrote themes to discuss: class, my parents, my lack of schooling. For the first 10 years of my life, I lived in a Glasgow tenement: me, my brother and my parents, sharing the same bedroom, that stuff stays with you. Kids like me were judged to be stupid because the educational structures designated us as such. We were set up to be labourers, or unemployed, on the scrapheap. I wanted to learn, but I wasnt given anything to learn, and I didnt know how to ask. I remember feeling like a failure at that age.

I wanted to include stuff in the book that was outside rocknroll, but that helped shape me. For me, the late 70s/early 80s were a cultural revolution. Sex Pistols, the Clash my cultural education came from reading music papers of that time. Malcolm McLaren talking about the Situationists. Tony Wilson, Factory Records thered be a Factory band called the Durutti Column, and youd find out that it referenced a Spanish anarchist who fought against Franco. All these cultural markers.

IW For me, it started with Bowie, because what he did as an artist was quite rare. Normally, people are coy about their references, everybody wants to appear highly original. Bowie was incredibly generous and shared all his sources. He was working-class art school, basically. Through him, you got into Lou Reed, Kraftwerk, electronic music, Burroughs, the Beat writers He just threw it all out there for everyone to have a rummage around.

I saw the Clash, I never saw the Sex Pistols. I bought the original black cover of Anarchy in the UK and played it incessantly, driving people nuts. Punk validated you being a little cunt basically. I was very unruly and non-academic, so, it was, wow, great, these are my people and theyre making records. All these fucking misfits everywhere.

BG Punk was more of a state of mind than a dress code. Before Primal Scream, I was around people like Siouxsie and the Banshees and New Order, seeing how they treated either bands I was in, like the Wake, or my friends band, Altered Images. Just watching them work, it was heaven. We worshipped these people, truly.

You read interviews with Siouxsie and you were scared of her: this cold, austere ice queen. Siouxsie, Poly Styrene, Chrissie Hynde, Debbie Harry, the Slits, these women were not pushovers. What was important was that they were songwriters, it was their band. Whereas before, chances were, a guy wrote the songs. Women werent given more power, they demanded more power. They didnt dress to please men or sing sexually suggestive songs. They told their own stories. To me, that was one of the important breaks from the past of punk.

IW Race/ethnicity was another one. Those attitudes went through to other stuff, like ska, 2 Tone, and acid house. Same vibe then. It all came out of the same punk idea.

BG Punk, post-punk, it was a break from the old order. It was meant to be about a new kind of person. It wasnt racist, it wasnt sexist, it wasnt Tory.

I ask Gillespie and Welsh for their thoughts on Brexit and Scottish independence. In July, Gillespie expressed concern about Brexit making life harder for musicians. Previously, he described Scottish independence as inevitable, while emphasising that he in no way considered himself to be a nationalist.

BG Brexit is an English and Welsh thing. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted remain. I dont want to bring nationalist politics into this, thats not my thing. I guess all nationalism is exclusive, not just English nationalism When it happened, I thought, well, maybe this is English nationalism, which is, for me, frightening.

You could look at the different reasons for Brexit: socioeconomic, xenophobic, maybe 40 years of neoliberalism is to blame for the disconnect, the inequality. People at the bottom felt through their newspapers or Facebook groups that the EU was to blame for their circumstances It also became this emotional thing. I think its less about class-based politics now, and more about emotionalism.

IW The media fanned the spark that had been there for years. Brexit became a kind of civil war of elites that everybody else was dragged into Im not as much for Scottish independence as I am against imperialist nation-states. I think its better to be governed by non-hierarchical nation-states that arent based on imperialist precepts and entrenched beliefs. Im for Scottish independence as a mechanism for breaking up the UK, and Im for English independence and Welsh independence. The real fear of elites in England is that, if Scotland is independent, at a stroke, theres no royal family, no House of Lords, no Eton. And people in England are going to say well have some of that.

BG I remember reading you at the time of the vote in 2014, and thinking, thats interesting. This idea that, if Scotland gets independence and becomes a more social democratic, left, liberal country, maybe people in England will finally wake up. I totally understand that point of view, but I find it very hard. Im only nationalist when it comes to football. My dads influence was to be internationalist.

Gillespies father is a former Sogat [print union] official who came second representing the Labour party in the 1988 Glasgow Govan byelection. Gillespie has two sons with his wife, stylist Katy England.

BG Im glad weve got two beautiful sons [Wolf, 19, and Lux, 17]. Its about giving them a loving environment to grow up in, letting them be themselves. So long as theyre all right, Im all right.

IW I wouldnt have been a good parent. Im not interested. I always moved around physically. I would have been very absent, and conflicted. What I wanted to do required a lot of selfishness if you were doing it right. Ive met your dad. I recognise him from what you say in the book. I didnt meet your mum.

BG When Mum met Dad, she became politicised: she marched, made Young Socialists banners she was creative and strong, I guess she had to be my dads a big character I couldnt write too much about their marriage dynamic, its their private stuff. Politics and romance are very hard, I dont know if they really mix. I couldnt understand it as a child. I was just very upset. I was aware of that tension when theres going to be an explosion. You want to hide, but youre stuck. When youre very young, you dont have the emotional intelligence to understand. You think: Mum and Dad should love each other, and they dont [laughs ruefully]. Under the circumstances, they did their best, they loved us.

IW Youre finding out about the world through your parents, through the dynamics and changes in their relationship. You think: it cant always be sweetness and light. Its just life, it grinds people down. And youre aware, even when youre young, that youre only seeing the tip of the emotional iceberg. That theres more, but its not your place to intervene.

BG As you become older you start to understand more, but you still feel sad about it. Youre burying stuff and it comes out in other ways. You can turn it into good art. I havent done therapy for a while but, when I did, Id describe certain reactions and theyd say, youre disassociating. I thought, maybe thats right, just that feeling, the powerlessness. I could argue with you about football, or with the band about something creative. When it came to women, girlfriends, being angry and emotional, it was almost like I was a football and Id been punctured.

IW Im like that. I cant argue or anything like that with women. I almost remove myself. Ive had therapy: I once did it with a guy in Islington who actually made me lie down on a couch, which was fucking great. I always have therapy after a major relationship breakdown. I think, this is over, its done, I want to get myself into better shape for the next relationship. Anything that lasts for more than 10 years, youve got to put the time in.

BG When I attempted to stop taking drugs and drinking, what helped more than anything was making a commitment to getting up in the morning, getting dressed and going somewhere, swimming, an NA [narcotics anonymous] meeting. Putting structure into a chaotic life, building defences. Because if I drank, I took drugs. If I took drugs, I drank. I didnt like the way I was behaving. I hated myself. I didnt like the impact it was having on my wife and kids. I couldnt take it any more. I was becoming really deranged and paranoid. I was making myself psychotic basically. It was time to make a change, for many reasons, but mainly my family.

In the book, I write about drugs in a particular time period. About being on stage between Robert Young and Andrew Innes, blasting Les Pauls through Marshall stacks, all of us on speed, feeling like a god. I had to write about it: I experienced it, it was a rocknroll experience. Same as what got us into acid house was Alan McGee giving us ecstasy. At first, we were: Fuck that!

IW That lasts until your first pill goes down. And then you think youve invented acid house.

BG Theres Andrew Weatheralls quote: Ecstasy is a great drug but its also very dangerous because you find yourself on the dancefloor, punching the air to Lady in Red by Chris de Burgh. But you know, ecstasy, acid house, it all goes together. We liked drugs. I loved taking drugs. I wasnt wrong. We werent wrong. I was right to do it. Im glad I did it. I just got to the point where I couldnt take them any more and manage myself.

IW Ive never quite got to that point Ive just been at the Mucky Weekender festival I havent done so much MDMA powder in 15 years When lockdown started, I thought, Im not going to drink or take drugs at all until this is over. I dont want to wake up and find everything shut down. Im pretty good, Ill always take four months off at the start of the year and go back on drinks and drugs on April Fools Day, do it for the summer, and then October, November, December off again.

BG Youre seasonal?

IW Im a seasonal kind of guy.

Last year saw the loss of Denise Johnson, whose soulful vocals infused Screamadelica. Gillespie says: She was a big part of the band. Tenement Kid is dedicated to influential producer/DJ/mixer Andrew Weatherall who also died last year, of a pulmonary embolism and Primal Scream guitarist Robert Throb Young, who succumbed to drink and drug addictions and died in 2014, aged 49, several years after leaving the band.

BG Me and Andrew Innes were expecting [Throbs death] for a few years. But of course I was shocked. I remember where I was when I got the phone call. I was sitting in my car, I felt my body drop to the floor.

Its hard to talk about. Its deep, personal stuff, I dont want to upset his family. It was a long process Throb was my brother, a co-songwriter, a big personality, an incredibly creative, talented man. When we were making Vanishing Point, he kind of stopped being present. He wasnt there. He missed the whole record. When he was there, when he came up two or three times, he was on another planet, he was gone, he couldnt play.

IW He was in pubs in Primrose Hill a lot. He was always great, avuncular and fun. He seemed to lose interest in playing. Give Out But Dont Give Up, that was the Throb album, wasnt it? Total guitar, Stones-y kind of thing he was in his element. Maybe the way the sound moved, he didnt feel there was a place for him? If you look at any relationship, its the same isnt it? People going in different directions, and not realising it. Its an organic thing.

BG That definitely did happen we knew the band had to change But the door was always left open. If you look at that album [Vanishing Point], Throbs got an equal songwriting credit to everyone else. That was us saying: youre fucking part of the gang.

Andrew Weatherall was considered a pivotal influence on Primal Scream, a facilitator of the rock/acid house fusion of Screamadelica.

BG One hundred per cent: No Weatherall, no Screamadelica. I write about it in the book, its about trust. Trust in his taste. Trust that when he was mixing our stuff, if he threw something at it, it was needed. Andrew worked with Hugo Nicolson, who had the tech knowhow. Andrew had the imagination and the vision, and together they were an incredible team. Weatherall was unique. He wasnt a musician or a guy whod been in recording studios. He wasnt a geek, sitting in the back room with a computer since he was 13. He was a savant, an artist, who had this natural ability to make visionary music.

IW When Andrew passed, everything in the world just seemed to turn to shit. It was like the end of an era, for want of a better term. His creative and social tentacles went everywhere. He knew all sorts of people, he had all sorts of associations and collaborations. An amazing character, very conceptual and thematic in his thinking. Probably the defining artist of that era, right through the 90s, to the present day.

Do you remember his funeral? We were in that place in Clapham, and everybody was there, from across all different places and times. He kind of united everybody. That was the last night everybody was together and then, bang, the pandemic hit. In a strange way, if he had to go, that was the time to do it.

BG I remember in the 90s, whenever I called my parents, theyd say: Were just back from a funeral. Now weve reached this age.

IW The scheme where I grew up was the Aids capital of Edinburgh, which was the Aids capital of Europe. I came to expect people to die. I think weve maybe become more aware of death during Covid. During lockdown, you couldnt mourn people or go to funerals, just online nonsense. As a result, weve become a lot more focused on death, more morbid as a society. Death has always been around and its always going to be around.

At that festival I went to, I was thinking, well, this is kind of normal life now, I got back to normal life

BG In August, we did the NHS frontline workers benefit gig at the O2, with Liam Gallagher headlining. It was strange. I hadnt done anything since 2019 It was like being a football player who hadnt been in training and suddenly youre playing a game. It took me a few songs to get my sea legs, to start to enjoy it.

Id only had a one-day rehearsal with the band. Id been doing promo in France for the record I just did, Utopian Ashes, with Jehnny Beth, and I had to self-isolate Making Utopian Ashes felt very vulnerable, country soul. All the boys from Primal Scream play on it. I wrote lyrics on acoustic guitar, then worked through ideas with Jehnny Beth and her boyfriend, Johnny Hostile.

IW Its very good, very different, it touches on another side to you.

BG Thank you. I wanted to get to the heart of adult relationships, to make an adult record that was appropriate to my age. Ive always wanted to be a better songwriter, a better lyricist. In the past, I could be quite codified about what I wrote to protect myself. From my background, you hid what you felt, you didnt want to be ridiculed or mocked.

IW The good thing about being a writer is you become a writer because you think youre unemployable in any other environment or circumstance. It kind of cements that unemployability, you dig yourself in, five years, 10, 20, nobodys going to touch you for anything else. Does it ruin you for normal life? It certainly facilitated my own ruination and thank fuck as well Work is the only thing that keeps me out of trouble. The devil makes work for idle hands. If Im not working, Im basically just disrupting.

BG The band have always kept working, one way or another, Ive always kept working With this book, at first, I was, no, no, no, but a seed was planted. At the beginning of last year, I didnt want to make another rocknroll record, Ive done enough of them. I thought, Im ready to write a book, thats going to be my project for this year. I wanted to give a good account of myself and my family. I wanted to do something a bit different, something creative, challenging, something Ive never done before.

Tenement Kid by Bobby Gillespie is published by White Rabbit (20). To support the Guardian and Observer order your copy at guardianbookshop.com. Delivery charges may apply

The headline to this article was amended on 10 October 2021 to indicate that it was an abridgement of a quote from Bobby Gillespie.

View post:

Bobby Gillespie: For the first 10 years of my life, I lived in a Glasgow tenement that stuff stays with you - The Guardian