Google’s CEO on the Future of Work – The Journal. – WSJ Podcasts – The Wall Street Journal

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Kate LInebaugh: Sundar Pichai is the CEO of one of the world's largest companies, Alphabet, the parent company of Google. And right now he's leading the company through a complex period. He's rethinking the workplace and company culture. He's dealing with growing calls for more regulation. And he's figuring out how to confront an explosion of misinformation. On Friday, the Editor in Chief of the Wall Street Journal had the chance to sit down with Pichai to talk about the challenges ahead for the company. So today we get to hear from Pichai himself. Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Kate Linebaugh. It's Monday, October 18th.Coming up on the show, Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai on how one of the world's biggest tech companies is looking toward the future. Our Editor In Chief Matt Murray sat down with Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai last week. Their interview was recorded outside on a warm sunny day for the Wall Street Journal Tech Live Conference. Matt started the conversation with a topic companies everywhere are figuring out, the future of work.

Matt Murray: Let's start with something on everybody's mind right now, which is the workforce return. You have, I think, pushed your official starting date at Google now back to January. Where are you right now on returnees, remote work, mask mandates, test mandates, and what you expect to see in the workforce in the next few months?

Sundar Pichai: You're right. It's been the topic du jour. I've been amazed at how long, how much time we have spent thinking about it. At a high level, we are operating with the view that the future of work will be flexible, it will have inherent flexibility built into it. We deeply believe in the power of getting people together, which is why you saw us recently buy a building in New York and investing for the future. But we are roughly planning on a three/two model.

Matt Murray: Three days in, two days-

Sundar Pichai: Three days in, two days off. Four days, complete flexibility to work from anywhere. And we are looking to accommodate about 20% of our workforce to be fully remote over time. So it's something we've been thinking about. We are giving people a lot more freedom to relocate to a different base. So trying to embrace and build in flexibility. We are embracing it as a challenge to go to new places around the country and bring in people, be DC, be Chicago, be it New York, bringing people with more perspective, a diverse workforce. So we've taken it as an opportunity. But beyond January, we are just going to tell people to make decisions locally, not centrally anymore, because different places in the world are going through different trajectories.

Matt Murray: But, and you said you worry about culture and people being together, how are you going to have the culture you want to have and need to have and that everybody can feel a part of whether they're in the office or working remotely? That's going to really be a big challenge, isn't it?

Sundar Pichai: It is. And we are kind of borrowing against the equity we had created like of many years of working in-person together, which is why we believe in the power of physical spaces. So we are re-imagining it quite a bit, trying to create more collaboration spaces, fun places for people to come and get together. We do think we have to earn, it has to make sense for people as to what they get out of by coming all the way to work, particularly if they're going to be on video at work too. But I think people also feel it, particularly new employees, younger employees. They're clearly, when we opened our New York offices back, we are up to 50% occupancy back.

Matt Murray: And it's voluntary there, there's no-

Sundar Pichai: It is voluntary, but it's about 50% back. And last week we had lines in our cafes for the first time. And so the energy in the office was back there, and for what it's worth, it's anecdotal, people seemed really happy to be back. And so I do think there is an inherent human desire to come and connect as well.

Matt Murray: How much are you going in right now?

Sundar Pichai: This week I've been in every day, but it's been about two to three days a week.

Matt Murray: Yeah.

Sundar Pichai: Yeah.

Matt Murray: And how crowded is it when you go in?

Sundar Pichai: I would say about 20 to 30% voluntary back. I said New York is 50%. So it's a whole range.

Matt Murray: Is this going to be a permanent change, three/two? Is it going to be a temporary change? Is it transitional? Is it here for, you're planning as if it's here forever, but realistically in five or 10 years, is this a new model for how Google should operate?

Sundar Pichai: I think so. Even in places like New York and San Francisco our employees dealt with long commutes and that was a real issue. And so I do think people get a better balance in a three/two model. And our data shows that we can make that three/two model work, but the three is important. The three days in person is going to be important for collaboration and community, I feel. So it's about getting the balance, but we are embracing that and it's not just in New York. We probably will invest in real estate around because we want unique workspaces where it's easy for teams to do get togethers. Or if you want to ideate something and collaborate, it should be much more seamless to do so. So we are re-imagining it that way.

Matt Murray: You were talking a minute ago about different offices, people working at home, diversity of your workforce. I think in all ways, experientially, geographically, is Silicon Valley different in terms of being the center of tech is? Is tech everywhere now?

Sundar Pichai: It's a growing pie. So in some ways it's difficult to say. I still, there are strong indications which tell me Silicon Valley is still doing amazing things and has access to the best talent possible, but there is more activity and energy in these other places than ever before. So I think it's a growing pie and it's not just going to be Silicon Valley alone anymore. You are definitely going to see other places doing well, which is good, I think, overall, but the Valley still has something special. I haven't seen that part change yet.

Matt Murray: I have to ask about your workforce a bit. It feels like employees speaking up and how to respond and how to deal, it's a new part of the toolkit for a CEO today that you have to learn to manage. So are you more vocal yourself, internally at least, at pushing back if you disagree or saying, "I disagree with you," or, "You could have your opinion." Have you changed how you interact with your own folks on issues where they challenge you?

Sundar Pichai: Well, I view it as a strength, because running a large company, you want to make sure the company is doing the right things. So it brings a sense of accountability, which I've always viewed as the strength of the company. We've invested in channels and ways by which people can raise their concerns. And, we've done better as a company there, but, and I think it's a process we've gone through is to be clear on the other side too, explain ourselves, and sometimes we make a decision and a set of our employees may not agree with it, but be clear and firm and show that's what we are going to do. And I think it's important. There has to be a dialogue of respect on both sides, I think, but I think CEOs need to embrace the fact that in the modern workplace, employees want to have a say in where they work. And I think there is strength in that too. So I think that's the way I've looked at it.

Kate LInebaugh: After the break, how Google is approaching challenges from the outside, misinformation, and regulation.Last month, Alphabet said it would ban vaccine related misinformation on YouTube, which it owns. This applies not just to COVID vaccines, but many other vaccines too, like measles or Hepatitis B. Alphabet also has said it won't put advertisements on YouTube videos that deny climate change. These kinds of actions have raised questions about whether sites like YouTube can be considered neutral platforms.

Matt Murray: Aren't you basically acting as a publisher when you have to make decisions like that? Realistically, making those kinds of decisions about content and how to monitor it or what's acceptable or not, that seems like something that is not going away for a big company like Alphabet, like Google.

Sundar Pichai: Look, I mean, I would say one way you can think about it is at end of the day we are trying to balance content creators, users, and advertisers. So even in that area, that policy change, there's a lot of brand advertisers on YouTube. You can look at it from a free market basis and say they don't want their ads next to content because they think it's brand negative. And we have to respect where advertisers want to spend their money. And if they pull out, creators suffer too. And, we as a company are incented to get it right, even from a business viewpoint for us too.

Matt Murray: And are there areas of controversial topics or controversial speech though, where beyond what the advertisers think, your view is it has to be protected, it has to be carved out. I mean, that must come up sometimes too for you.

Sundar Pichai: All the time. COVID has been an area, right? The answer is a lot of times raising a authoritative information, including news sources. So that's been an important part of what we do in YouTube. We are also trying to find expert organizations which people would accept. That's always harder than you realize. In some countries, public health authorities are viewed as an authoritative source and it's a bit more controversial here in the US, but so those are all areas we are trying to find the right balance. So in COVID, authoritative sources for us would be news organizations, expert medical organizations, think a Mayo Clinic or a Cleveland Clinic, and in institutions like that.

Matt Murray: Let me ask you about the privacy debate. Of course, it never really goes away, and you're facing a lawsuit now of course involving incognito mode from some users claiming that there's unlawful tracking. And using people's data has been central to the success Google has had. How at odds are changing notions of privacy with Google's business model? And does the business model need to change itself here, because of that?

Sundar Pichai: Most of the data today we keep is for the benefit of the user and to give it back. We support our products through advertising and increasingly we are offering alternate models as well. So for example, Google apps don't have advertising and they're subscription based. You can use YouTube that way. But even in advertising, we need very limited information to make sure the ad is relevant to you and that enough people find the ad effective. So I think we will have good frameworks to evolve things in putting people's privacy first, but people do demand experiences. People tell us we have done a good job. If you remind them that they are maybe going to be in New York and it's going to rain and maybe they need to pack an umbrella. Or they want the fastest direction home at the end of a long day. And so it's the trust. We listen to that, and we are building experiences for users. That's what guides us. And one of the biggest changes we announced is by default auto deleting your activity data. But I want the biggest privacy risk most users face is security. If you look at all the breaches, so the work we do to keep you users safe in products like Gmail, et cetera. So that's where we put a lot of effort in as well.

Matt Murray: What's changed that made security, it is a big issue, lots of CEOs and executives talk about it and face it. The attacks, I take it, the kind of cyber hacking attacks and other things are worse than ever right now and what what's causing that?

Sundar Pichai: Look, I mean, the world of cyber doesn't have norms and conventions we have established in the real world. You don't have the Geneva Convention equivalent on the cyber world. So over time I think we need to internalize that and governments in a multilateral basis, the G20s et cetera, need to put it up higher on the agenda.

Matt Murray: You're calling for regulation on that front.

Sundar Pichai: I'm calling for global frameworks. You're going to need it for areas like cybersecurity, just like we have it in the real world, you know? And if not, you're just going to see more of it because countries would resort to those things. And so I do think you're going to need more frameworks like this for time.

Matt Murray: Sundar Pichai, thank you very much for the time today and the conversation. Really enjoyed the chance to sit down with you.

Sundar Pichai: Thanks, Matt. Pleasure to be here.

Kate LInebaugh: That's all for today, Monday, October 18th. The Journal is a co-production of Gimlet and the Wall Street Journal. To hear the full conversation with Sundar Pichai and other interviews with people like Paul Davison, CEO of Clubhouse, or Evan Spiegel, CEO of Snap, you can join the WSJ Tech Live Conference at techlive.wsj.com. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

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Google's CEO on the Future of Work - The Journal. - WSJ Podcasts - The Wall Street Journal