Transcript: The 11th Hour, 1/11/22 – MSNBC

Summary

President Biden calls for filibuster reform, if Republicans block voting rights legislation, during his big speech in Atlanta. It comes as Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer plans to bring the legislation to the floor again as soon as Wednesday. Meantime, the Jan. 6th committee issues a new round of subpoenas, targeting two Donald Trump Jr. advisors and a former White House official who helped draft the speech Trump gave prior to the attack on the Capitol. Plus, the U.S. reports more than 1.3 million new Covid infections just a week after breaking the previous daily record.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Time for tonight`s "LAST WORD."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA) MINORITY LEADER: The President bears responsibility for Wednesday`s attack on Congress by mob rioters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Kevin McCarthy, friend of Donald Trump gets tonight`s "LAST WORD." THE 11TH HOUR starts now.

[23:00:28]

STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, I`m Stephanie Ruhle. Day 357 of the Biden administration. Today, the president and vice president we`re in Atlanta, Georgia, the epicenter of the civil rights movement to make their strongest case yet for voting rights. Together, they urge the Senate to pass the new voting protections still being blocked by all 50 Republicans and Biden through his support behind changing the Senate rules to make that happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We must stand strong and stand together to make sure January 6 marks not the end democracy. But the beginning. The Freedom of the Vote Act takes on election subversion to protect nonpartisan electors, officials who doing their job from intimidation interference, it`s also time to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act.

I`ve been having these quiet conversations with members of Congress for the last two months. I`m tired to be quiet.

The threat to our democracy is so grave that we must find a way to pass these voting rights bill. Debate them, vote, let the majority prevail. And if that bare minimum is blocked, we have no option but to change the Senate rules including getting rid of the filibuster for this.

I support changing the Senate rules, whichever way they need to be changed to prevent a minority of senators from blocking action on voting rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: And why has President Biden made this his number one focus? Well, according to the Brennan Center for justice, at least 19 states have passed 34 different laws restricting access to the ballot. Vice President Harris offered this warning about those very efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: There is a danger of becoming accustomed to these laws. We must not be deceived into thinking a law that makes it more difficult for students to vote is normal. We must not be deceived into thinking a law that makes it illegal to help a voter with a disability vote by mail is normal. There is nothing normal about a law that makes it illegal to pass out water or food to people standing in long voting lines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: While back in Washington, the two Senate leaders both took to the floor today with strong statements about voting legislation and reforming the filibuster. Majority Leader Schumer insisted Democrats are ready to move forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY) MAJORITY LEADER: The Senate is going to act as soon as tomorrow. It is my intention to once again bring legislation to the floor to fight back against the threats to democracy and protect people`s access to the ballot.

Once again, I urge my Republican colleagues to take up the flag of the traditional Republican Party, not only of Lincoln, but of Reagan and H.W. Bush and W. Bush and vote yes to move forward. So we can have a debate, like the debate we just had, or discussion we just had.

But if Republicans continue to hijack the rules of the Senate to prevent voting rights from happening, if they continue paralyzing this chamber, to the point where we`re helpless to fight back against the big lie, we must consider the necessary steps we can take so the Senate can adapt and act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: While Republicans Republican Mitch McConnell fired back promising his favorite move to retaliate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY) MINORITY LEADER: If my colleague tries to break the Senate to silence those millions of Americans, we will make their voices heard in this chamber in ways that are more inconvenient for the majority and this White House than what anybody has seen, and living memory.

Our colleagues who are itching to drain every drop of collegiality from this body have not even begun to consider how that would work. If the Democratic leader tries to shut millions of Americans and entire states out of the business of governing, the operations of this body will change. Oh, yes. That much is true, but not in ways that reward the rule breakers. Not in ways that advantage this president, this majority or their party. I guarantee you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:05:24]

RUHLE: There`s also new developments tonight in the January 6 investigation, House Select Committee now interested in talking to extra lawyer and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, one of the leading figures over and over peddling false claims about election fraud.

Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson says Giuliani is on a list of a lot of people they want to be talking to. When asked about the possibility of a subpoena for Giuliani, Thompson said the committee is working through the process.

The panel today did issue a round of subpoenas to three separate people all in the Trump family inner circle. The lawmakers demanding testimony and documents from Andy Surabian, Arthur Schwartz, were both advisors to Donald Trump Jr. The committee says those two guys spoke with the younger Trump and others about last year`s rally. The third subpoena which Ross Worthington, he`s a former Trump White House official who allegedly helped draft Trump`s rally speech.

And as that investigation unfolds, the Department of Justice today announced the creation of a new unit to fight domestic terrorism. Justice officials say there are persistent and evolving threats of violent extremism in the US.

And as the nation battles the relentless spread of Omicron, many hospitals across the country are continuing to be overwhelmed. The New York Times reporting today that the number of people admitted for COVID now higher than it was during last winter surge.

With that and a lot of news we`ve got to cover tonight. I want to bring in our lead off guests on this Tuesday. Phil Rucker, Pulitzer Prize winning senior Washington correspondent for The Washington Post and co-author of the must read New York Times bestseller, "I alone can fix it." Alexi McCammond, political reporter for Axios and Chuck Rosenberg, former US attorney and former senior FBI official

Phil, let`s talk about Biden, he was pretty clear. He demanded action on voting rights and said we need to tweak, not scrap the filibuster. Many, many people said we need a plan. That sounds like a plan.

PHIL RUCKER, THE WASHINGTON POST SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Steph. This was a long time coming for Democrats and voting rights and civil rights activists in this country. They`ve wanted to see the President speak with a sort of forceful authority and really righteous anger that he showed in Atlanta today.

He clearly is prioritizing voting rights now. But for some Democrats, there`s a feeling that it`s a little bit too late here. And there`s also a question of what that plan actually is without the support of Senators Manchin and Sinema in the Senate, the math just doesn`t add up to get to the 50 votes that are necessary to change those rules and to pass this voting rights legislation.

But as you heard from Senator Schumer, Democrats are going to move forward and later in this week to try to bring this to the floor and try to take action. And what you saw today in Atlanta was Biden and Vice President Harris putting it all on the line and really showing that their presidency and their administration is behind this push right now.

RUHLE: Alexi, some progressives, as well as voting and civil rights groups skipped Biden speech today, after the speech, the president of the NAACP said this quote, while President Biden delivered a stirring speech today, it`s time for this administration to match their words, with actions and for Congress to do their jobs.

Was skipping today a warning to Biden? We don`t show up for you on your speech, and we`re not showing up for you or Democrats come election day, if you don`t deliver.

ALEXI MCCAMMOND, AXIOS POLITICAL REPORTER: That wasn`t the message they were sending. And I asked them during this Zoom in which they announced that they weren`t going if what they would basically say to voters for why they should show up and still support the Democratic Party and Democratic candidates if they aren`t able to deliver on Federal Voting rights.

And these folks said, it`s not about ditching the Democratic Party or ditching Democratic candidates or Biden. It`s about continuing to do the work. And I think that`s what their absence said more than anything. They were saying, Look, President Biden, thanks for coming to Atlanta, but we`d rather you be giving the speech in Washington DC to senators on Capitol Hill. Their absence was saying we`re still doing the work here in Georgia and across the country to educate voters to register voters to make sure they know what to do come 2022. Because voting is you know and started the hour with in 2022 and beyond will really depend based on where you live.

RUHLE: Chuck, let`s talk about this new DOJ unit they are designing to specifically handle domestic terrorism. Is it a big deal? It sounds that way.

CHUCK ROSENBERG, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: It sounds that way, Stephanie, but I don`t think it is. Let me explain.

[23:10:02]

Prior to 9/11, the Department of Justice and the FBI was doing a lot of national security work, but they didn`t have a National Security Division. And after 9/11, they created one, they put a new box on the organizational chart of the Department of Justice.

Similarly, prior to January 6, and for many years, the Department of Justice and the FBI has been doing lots and lots of work on domestic terrorism investigations and prosecutions. But they didn`t have a domestic terrorism unit in the National Security Division, now they do.

Putting another box on an organizational chart is helpful in certain ways. It tells the organization what leadership thinks is important, sends a signal to Congress and to the public. But there has to be more than just the box on an organizational chart. I`m glad they did it. But there`s a lot more work to do. Domestic terrorism is a metastasizing threat, and merely creating a new unit, while helpful is not enough.

RUHLE: Isn`t this the first step to doing that? I think back to what they did after 9/11.

ROSENBERG: Yes, I think it`s the first step. But I think there are other and more important steps, Stephanie. Let me give you an example. You all know that there are crimes of international terrorism, providing material support to al Qaeda or to ISIS is a federal crime. There is no federal crime of domestic terrorism. There`s a federal definition of domestic terrorism in the Criminal Code. But there is no crime of domestic terrorism.

The Department of Justice can`t create one, Congress has to. And I think there`s lots of good reasons for Congress to do that, however, and people will know this better than me. I don`t think Congress can agree that today is Tuesday.

And so waiting on Congress to fill this moral equivalency gap in federal law, I think is well, I think we`re going to be waiting quite a long time. That`s what needs to happen. FBI has the tools. The Department of Justice has the tools. They have the experience. They have the agents, they have the prosecutors, but they could use a federal domestic terrorism law from Congress. That`s what we need.

RUHLE: Phil, if you look closely, today`s his speech could be considered something like a campaign rally. This is the second speech in a row. Biden has taken a direct swing at Trump or as he likes to call him, the defeated former president. That`s a new stroke for him.

RUCKER: It is. We heard for all of the first year of Biden`s presidency or reluctance to even reference Donald Trump, let alone utter his name, or speak of him in any of his remarks. He would occasionally refer to the former guy. But now we hear the defeated former president.

You heard in that speech last week that President Biden gave that he invoked Trump although not by name, but invoked him nonetheless 16 times. He came out swinging against Trump and he did so again today in Atlanta. This is a new rhetorical shift.

My colleagues at The Washington Post`s Tyler pager and Annie Linskey have been reporting on this the last few days, and have determined that there`s a new strategy in the White House, which is not to attack Trump daily like this, but to attack him at big high profile moments when he thinks there`s going to be considerable media attention, such as the speech today in Atlanta, and when he might be able to deliver a message beyond those who are following politics hour by hour.

RUHLE: Alexi, how about Chuck Schumer`s message? He`s pushing to hold votes on the floor of the Senate very soon. When I looked at the numbers, I don`t get it. What does he know that we don`t last? I`ve heard Sinema and Manchin they haven`t moved?

MCCAMMOND: Yes, I mean, look, Steph, as you know, holding a vote like that is going to put folks like Manchin and Sinema on the record and show voters across the country and their state and otherwise, where they stand on this issue, and show people where the remaining continued disagreements are within the Democratic Party.

So, I don`t think that Schumer thinks that this thing is going to be passed into law anytime soon. I don`t think that Manchin and Sinema are necessarily going to be convinced by one speech by President Biden and Vice President Harris.

But it`s not to say that the debate will end after this vote happens. I think there`s going to be a lot of conversations and negotiations going forward.

RUHLE: But we know where they stand. Joe Manchin has said it over and over and over, there`s no surprise there.

MCCAMMOND: Well, you know, I think they`re going to show Americans where they stand. I mean, you know, baby Joe Manchin will try to use this as a moment to get more leverage with Build Back Better, as you know, that has been passed, in part because Senator Joe Manchin is holding that up as well. So, their conversations to be had and the senators say they want to get something done.

RUHLE: All right, Chuck, let`s go back to the January 6 committee. They say they`re working on getting Rudy Giuliani to testify, and I want to share what Republican committee member Adam Kinzinger said earlier tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Obviously Rudy was in a lot of those conversations.

[23:15:00]

We see an after the fact reporting he was, you know, actively pressing the president on these conspiracies and convincing him and, you know, worming his way in to these meetings. So he`ll have some information, I fully expect he probably won`t be super cooperative. But again, Congress has ways to compel that and we have ways to ensure that he`s telling the truth under oath.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: What are the ways to compel? Because let`s be honest, the likelihood Rudy Giuliani is going to participate while he loves the attention and he loves to talk. He`s not going to play ball.

ROSENBERG: No, he`s not going to play ball, Stephanie. And I think there`s a bigger problem with all due respect to the Congressman that he missed. You recall that the FBI executed search warrants at Mr. Giuliani`s home and office. He`s under criminal investigation, as far as we knew. He`s either likely a subject or a target of a federal criminal investigation, that gives him a Fifth Amendment privilege. Look, I`d love to hear from the guy.

RUHLE: Explain that.

ROSENBERG: Sure. We have reason to believe that Giuliani is under criminal investigation. We know the FBI executed search warrants at his home and office more than a year ago. That case has never been resolved. And it`s been very quiet.

But I imagine that because he`s under investigation, he can assert validly a Fifth Amendment privilege to refuse to answer any question, if an answer to the question tends to incriminate him.

So, your point about him not being cooperative is spot on. I`m not sure this guy would know the truth of it hit him in the back of their head.

But putting all that aside, and putting aside to that, I would love to hear from him because he must have tons of relevant information. He also can invoke his Fifth Amendment privilege not to testify. That`s a problem for Congress.

Prosecutors can overcome that, by immunizing and compelling someone to testify. Congress, in theory could try that route. But it might undermine any ongoing prosecution that the Department of Justice is conducting. This is a more difficult issue than the Congressman imagines.

RUHLE: Of course, the White House has other issues they`re dealing with. Phil, at this point, is the White House strategy around COVID and Omicron, to let this wave crest recede, and then get back to normal because as the days pass, you hear from more and more business leaders that are saying, yes, this thing`s going to move, and we`re all getting back to work or you`re not getting paid. That`s the most aggressive we`ve seen from the business community.

RUCKER: It certainly is Steph, and it`s a different approach than we saw in previous waves of the Coronavirus last year and then the year prior. The attitude in the White House is let`s get back to normal as quickly as we can. Obviously, they`re dealing with the hospitalizations around the country with the testing issues, with making sure that as many people are getting vaccinated as possible, but there`s also a focus on trying to get this economy more opened up getting life back to normal, getting people back in offices whenever it`s safe and appropriate to do so.

And also a determination from this White House not to impose any sort of lockdowns or extreme restrictions of the kind that we saw in those early months of the pandemic in the spring of 2020.

RUHLE: There`s a lot of determination when it comes to a political agenda for the President to get his whole party under 110. Alexi, before we go progressives, what is their plan to get in line, GOP style, hold your nose and get behind Trump? Or are they going to stand firm to what they believe and what they want? Whether it`s with voting rights or Build Back Better? Biden, excuse me.

MCCAMMOND: Sorry, you`re asking about progressive, they`re going to continue doing what they`ve been doing, which is employing the leverage that they have as a unified caucus, the Congressional Progressive Caucus has been moving as a solid block throughout this entire Congress and congressional session.

And so I don`t see that going away anytime soon, especially when Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, you know, has become a leader within that movement internally. And I think that`s especially true with voting rights, especially because they have the backing of all these folks on the outside the voting rights leaders, the civil rights leaders, the activist members of the King family, so there`s no reason for them to capitulate to anyone at this point.

RUHLE: Because at some point, Joe Manchin and progressives have got to get on some sort of similar page to get something done those activist groups, while massively important don`t have a vote Manchin and Sinema do.

MCCAMMOND: Yes, but I guess the argument they would make is it`s to folks versus you know, thousands and thousands and thousands across the country who are asking for these voting rights to be passed into law or asking for measures within the Build Back Better Act to be passed into law and help them, that only live life but participate in elections this cycle and next.

RUHLE: And if you want those thousands and thousands of votes for years to come, you better deliver.

[23:20:02]

Phil, Alexi, Chuck, always good to have you. We`re going to leave it there. Coming up, we`ve got a lot more to cover. Why would anyone be against protecting voting rights or saving lives from COVID? Turns out the answer might be the same for both. I`ll get into what our political experts and one of our top doctors have to say. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on this Tuesday night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Let me say this plainly and simply and straightforward. There is no widespread effort to suppress minority voting rights in America. It`s nonexistent, it doesn`t exist. This has nothing to do with this. This has to do with power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RUHLE: Well, that is not plain simple or straightforward. So let`s get practical. Here`s a reminder, this is what is in the legislation Democrats are trying to pass. The Freedom to Vote Act would expand voter registration and Election Day access, provide universal mail-in voting, make Election Day a national holiday and ban partisan redistricting. The John Lewis Voting Rights Act would reinstall federal oversight for cities and states with histories of voter discrimination.

With us tonight to discuss, Juanita Tolliver, veteran political strategist to progressive candidates and causes. And Mark McKinnon, former adviser to both George W. Bush and John McCain. He`s also among the co-hosts of the circus on Showtime.

Mark, we just went through this thing. Now Republicans have branded themselves as the party of patriots. How does that square with any patriot who wouldn`t want to make Election Day a holiday?

[23:25:03]

MARK MCKINNON, FMR. ADVISOR TO JOHN MCCAIN AND GEORGE W. BUSH: Great question, Stephanie. I mean, this really boils down to -- I mean, I respond first of Marco Rubio by saying the root of this is the 2020 election and President Trump claiming that there was widespread election fraud in the system. And the fact is, there is none. There is no widespread systemic fraud, that then the greatest fraud perpetuate in American politics today is the notion that there was.

More:
Transcript: The 11th Hour, 1/11/22 - MSNBC