Canadian Hemp & Cutting Edge CBD Research, With Ascension Sciences – Ministry of Hemp

The Ministry of Hemp Podcast

Canadian Hemp & Cutting Edge CBD Research, With Ascension Sciences

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With hemp off to a shaky start in the U.S., we thought wed take a look at Canadian hemp with help from an industry expert.

In episode 67 of the Ministry of Hemp podcast, our host Matt talks with Tomas Skrinskas, Founder and CEO of Ascension Sciences. As a CEO of a Canadian company that works with pharmaceutical companies in developing CBD based medicine, Tomas has a different perspective on the hemp market and how the Canadian government legislates hemp.

Tomas is also an expert on nanomedicines, so Matt and Tomas get into the topic of bioavailability. Ascension Sciences works to make CBD-based medicine more effective through nano-encapsulation, and he explains future of nano-encapsulation of CBD in drinks.

Matt also mentions our recent guide to CBD and CBN products that help you sleep.

For over 15 years, Tomas Skrinskas has been at the leading edge of transformative health care technologies including computer assisted surgery, surgical robotics and genetic nanomedicines. His career began with research and engineering which provided a strong foundation for the business development and operations roles that followed. Tomas founded Ascension Sciences (Twitter: @AscensionSci), a R&D laboratory focused on nanoparticle development for cannabinoid products and therapeutics, in January 2019.

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Below youll find the complete transcript of episode 67 of the Ministry of Hemp podcast, Canadian hemp and CBD:

Ep 67 Transcript:

Matt Baum:Im Matt Baum. And this is the Ministry of Hemp podcast, brought to you by ministryofhemp.com, Americas leading advocate for hemp and hemp education.

Matt Baum:Welcome back to the Ministry of Hemp podcast. And if youre new here, welcome aboard. Nice to have you. Today on the show, we are going to talk about another way pharmaceutical companies are making CBD more readily available to your body after you ingest it, or even rub it on your skin.

Matt Baum:Ive spoken about bioavailability on this show before, Episode 62, specifically. In that episode, I spoke with Dr. Andrew Yates and Professor Saoirse [OSullivan 00:00:00:43], who developed a cocrystal that will improve the bioavailability of CBD. In a nutshell, your body doesnt want to absorb this molecule very well. So we have to come up with creative ways, to get it to absorb into your system. Now, another way of doing this is nanotechnology, specifically nanoencapsulation.

Matt Baum:Today on the show, my conversation is with Dr. Tomas Skrinskas, founder and CEO of Ascension Sciences. And what they do, is work with nanoencapsulation. Basically, taking these molecules and putting them in a really, really tiny container that helps your body absorb it. This is a Canadian company, so we were also able to talk about what its like to develop hemp-based medicine in Canada, as opposed to the US. And Tomas had some really interesting points that I hadnt thought of. Heres my conversation with Tomas Skrinskas, CEO of Ascension Sciences.

Matt Baum:Tomas, welcome to the Ministry of Hemp.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. Thanks.

Matt Baum:Glad to have you.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah, this is Im stoked. This is great.

Matt Baum:I think youre our first Canadian guest.

Tomas Skrinskas:Outstanding.

Matt Baum:Yeah. So we can put a pin in the Ministry of Hemp map now, which is cool.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. Thats somewhat surprising, but no. Happy to speak for all of Canada, and to thank you. No, were happy to be here.

Matt Baum:Perfect. So lets talk about hemp in Canada, real quick. Hemp in Canada, and cannabis in Canada, period. Very different from hemp and marijuana, in the United States. You guys have quite the head start on us. Can you give us a quick little historical background of where youre at, compared to where we are?

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah, I can. My entry into the industry, the space, is actually really only been in the last two years. So, a deep history buff, I am not. But what Ive learned, in my short time is, I think theres advantages and disadvantages to what were doing. So, one example is the CBD, an explosion of CBD, from hemp in the US, its actually a little more flexible or a little easier to work with those materials-

Matt Baum:Really?

Tomas Skrinskas: or to develop products. Because its in the Farm Bill, and its all above board, and its easy-peasy. On the Canadian side, we have that CBD aspect thats from hemp, but theres just a lot more red flags and red tape and attention drawn, to make sure where its coming from and what its used for. So for us for example, we just assume and we treat our CBD, like its THC. We have to report and track and-

Matt Baum:Oh, wow.

Tomas Skrinskas:We cant lose a drop of it. And then, thats just to be certain that were doing everything right, because regulations are changing so fast. So all that to say, I missed the whole history part of your question, I just avoided it.

Matt Baum:No, no, this is perfect.

Tomas Skrinskas:But the difference-

Matt Baum:This is perfect.

Tomas Skrinskas:But the differences are there, that its sometimes easier, sometimes harder, but yeah. Its, different.

Matt Baum:As I understand it, its one set of rules for the whole country, though. Basically its not province by province, if you will. Whereas, here in the States, we have different states with completely different cannabis laws. Some you cant even drive cannabis through, let alone Or even hemp, its nuts. So Canada is nationwide, though.

Tomas Skrinskas:Correct. Yeah. There are some age differences, just like alcohol consumption is different in Quebec, and the Prairies and NBC, it changes by one year as you move around, and that goes for cannabis as well.

Matt Baum:Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:But yeah, across the country, we ship samples and all the rest like, bank. No problem. And all that is easy-peasy.

Matt Baum:See, thats a huge step up from us, right now. So, were having a lot of trouble. Its about smaller companies, as well. When you turn and say, Well, I cant accept credit cards, because we cant figure out if anything is insured, and credit card companies dont want to get in on that yet. Its very difficult. And I think we look to Canada You said, theres a lot of red tape. Were not, wed kill for that red tape. At least theres red tape. And we know we have to cut it, and get through it. We dont even know, right now. Like, Please give us some red tape, please.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. For product development and the research that we want to do, we want it, were completely above board and all the rest, but we do compete with people who just neglect the legacy market. Its called the legacy market-

Matt Baum:Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:Just neglects it, and keeps going. And theyll become legal, and the government helps them become legal, so thats the part that kind of pisses me off. Like, Im doing it right. And some people are going to be doing it right, eventually, but they have this little advantage. Theyre just kind of chugging along.

Matt Baum:You say theres a legacy market. Is that almost, when the laws were passed, or people that were already doing it this way? And Canada is nice enough to be like, Well, you guys catch up when you can. Is that, seriously, whats going on?

Tomas Skrinskas:Thats exactly whats going on. And then theres big consultancies and people helping them go from the gray market to the legal market. Its the reality. Yeah. They cant just shutter, or burn the crops or all the rest. Theres systems in place to help them become legal. And, I think thats good.

Matt Baum:Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:Its, fine.

Matt Baum:But I assume theres a lot of people that are dragging their feet, because this costs money.

Tomas Skrinskas:Exactly. Yeah. The licensing process, you have to spend money to out Security, and record-keeping, and all that-

Matt Baum:Of course.

Tomas Skrinskas:Quality, and all that, absolutely costs money. And its going to, some people wont be able to make it, and maybe theyll take that risk. And, some people wont. Time will tell, time will tell.

Matt Baum:Right. Lets talk about your background, for a minute. You said you got into this about two years ago. Tell me about Ascension Sciences.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yes. So, I had always been in the medical field. I did a masters in biomedical engineering, and it wasnt in particles and drug developments, so to speak. But all that to say, healthcare and hospitals and wellness, has always been part of my upbringing and then education, and career choices. And that brought me to a company called Precision NanoSystems where I came by nanotechnology, and nanoparticles. Meanwhile, they were doing, or they are doing, genetic medicine. But I saw the opportunity to mash that up with cannabinoids, which are essentially insoluble compounds, insoluble drugs, as we see them-

Matt Baum:Right.

Tomas Skrinskas: [crosstalk 00:08:23] therapeutic. So they require these types of delivery systems and cocrystals. I listened to your absolutely handy podcast on bioavailability and cocrystals.

Matt Baum:That was awesome, right? Those guys were so cool.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah, no, theyre legit. No, Artelo is doing real stuff. Thats the echelon, or thats where were placing ourselves, were in health to therapeutic development. And so, all that to say is, this health technology background, mashed it up and then saw an opportunity. And thats when Ascension Sciences started.

Matt Baum:Why cannabis though? What drew you to that? It seems like theres a lot I dont know if its safer, in Canada. I know Europe, and it sounds like Canada, definitely have better rules in place for people to develop these types of drugs. Where in the States, pharmaceuticals are still, theyre definitely planning. Dont get me wrong. Theyve got these patents, and theyre ready as soon as they feel like its safe.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yes.

Matt Baum:But, what drew you to cannabis?

Tomas Skrinskas:Somewhat opportunistic. The market, and legalization, it just lowered the barrier for the research to be done. If your angle or your, if youre prodding for my epiphany around the plant, and things of that nature, I think its a tool kit in any health and wellness situation. You dont take your Tylenol to hurt your toe, without realizing that its your small shoes, thats hurting your toe-

Matt Baum:Right, exactly.

Tomas Skrinskas: take your shoes off. So in mental health and inflammation, and anxiety, its a tool. And I recognize that, its certainly been part of some situations for me. But, Im opportunistic, as well. [crosstalk 00:10:16] theres-

Matt Baum:Theres nothing wrong with that. Thats a real answer, and I appreciate that. [inaudible 00:10:20].

Tomas Skrinskas:Thank you. Yeah.

Matt Baum:Its nice to say, I had a magic moment, and the sun hit me just right. And I looked at the [crosstalk 00:10:26]

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah.

Matt Baum: [crosstalk 00:10:27] and it spoke. And youre like, Thats great, and all.

Tomas Skrinskas:This is, its a little more calculated. Its a little more calculated, than that. But

Matt Baum:Theres nothing wrong with that, at all. So, what kind of stuff are you guys working on? You were talking about nanotechnology and nanoparticle development. Those are words that are thrown around a lot, and theyre not always thrown around by people that seem to know what it means. Im not putting you on the spot. You seem to know exactly where youre coming from on this, but Ive definitely interviewed people where Ive said, Okay, well, tell me about this nanoencapsulation in your body balm, or whatever. And theyre like, Oh, it makes it really small, so it just slips right through. Im like, Well, what does that mean? What are we talking about, here?

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. I kind of have the verbatim definition of nanotechnology. Its just manipulating materials, molecules, at a very small scale for some advantage or purpose. So, in drug development, a lot of drugs require nanoparticles to be delivered, around the body. The best analogy is, like a delivery truck. The nanoparticle is the truck. Your drug is inside the truck. And the truck is driving around, getting to the right place at the right time, in the right concentration. And you can design this truck, this nanoparticle, to do those things.

Tomas Skrinskas:And thats where things get interesting. Youre replacing parts. Youre making big trucks, small trucks-

Matt Baum:Sure, sure.

Tomas Skrinskas: all for various benefits, in your administration. Is it in your Are you swallowing it? Is it under your tongue? Is it on your skin? You can design these to aid, or to tune release, depending on what you want and how you want it done.

Matt Baum:So speaking to that, you, we mentioned cocrystals, and whatnot. I learned recently in that podcast, that your body naturally does not want to absorb these cannabinoids, because of the nature of the molecule itself. Can you shrink something down small enough, so that it is absorbed better? Or do you always need a cocrystal, carrier type thing?

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah, thats a good question, or a good point to clarify. So, were not shrinking CBD. Were-

Matt Baum:Shrinking is the wrong word. Yeah. Anyone who says they are, is lying, basically.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. Correct, but were packaging it, and were protecting it with other lipids or, things that, a shell around it. And we make it more stable, things of that nature. And cocrystals are, I would say, a competing technology to nanoparticles. When it comes to bioavailability. So you can, the fancy term is functionalize, the CBD. Where you attach something to it, and it becomes more soluble, more bioavailable. Our approach is to package all of the CBD into this matzo ball, and the matzo ball itself, is the soluble component.

Matt Baum:Im Jewish, so now youre just making me hungry. Thanks.

Tomas Skrinskas:Okay, sorry. I can, I [crosstalk 00:14:02] on that. Thats-

Matt Baum:No, thats perfect.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. And then, theres pros and cons, from IP to manufacturing costs, to actual reasons to do one or the other. For example, in nanoparticles, we like to draw attention to tuned release. So, long lasting or fast acting? So for pain, we can have a particle that releases it slowly, whereas a cocrystal, it might absorb it immediately, have the effect now for-

Matt Baum:Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas: acute pain. So theres all manner of reasons to do one or the other.

Matt Baum:So in nanoparticle technology, well call it, you can actually tune it to release fast or slow? Or is it a type of thing where, like a cocrystal is always going to be a fast release, and you have more control when it comes down to nanoparticles?

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. This is a slippery slope. Where-

Matt Baum:Or does it just not work like that? I have no idea. [crosstalk 00:15:18].

Tomas Skrinskas:So, your tablet, your gel cap, has all sorts of other components in it. So the gel cap can dissolve slowly, so thatll impart slow release-

Matt Baum:Okay, sure. Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas: [crosstalk 00:15:33] so you could put cocrystals in your slow release cap, or your slow release tablet. So you can attain different features from both sides, but combining the two as well. Theres no reason that we couldnt put cocrystal CBD into a nanoparticle, and just to have it be that much more bioavailable, that much more controlled and tuned release. And thats where you start to look at the indication.

Tomas Skrinskas:So again, Artelo is getting a lot of press here, for their PTSD applications and mental health situations. You can start to target the brain or wherever you want these things to collect, preferentially, in your body. Thats another reason nanoparticles become interesting.

Matt Baum:So theoretically, you could say, Okay, I want to make a capsule that is good for pain, and thats going to go through the whole body. As opposed to a capsule thats good for anxiety, which might target part of the brain, instead.

Tomas Skrinskas:Correct. Yeah.

Matt Baum:Thats very cool.

Tomas Skrinskas:Where, yeah.

Matt Baum:So what kind of cannabinoid products are you guys working on, right now? What kind of therapeutics? Are you looking at guiding things directly towards like, I want to treat PTSD, or. I want to treat seizure disorders.

Tomas Skrinskas:Yeah. Very good question. So, the short answer is, we do contract research. So we actually look for companies to bring their delivery problem, their therapeutic problem, to us. And we have kind of a toolkit of nanoparticles, and we can guide them, direct them, to some of our toolkit. And say, This particle, it sounds like it will work. Lets work together, and develop it further. And thats our preclinical development business model, at this stage of the company. Thats just somewhat of the reality of it being a six person, R & D licensed outfit. But we want to work with people like Artelo, and work with people like Cardiol and InMed, and GW Pharma. And, help them get their therapeutics to be more efficient, and help that many more people, by being better drugs.

Matt Baum:So I own Company X, and theoretically, were working on a drug for Crohns disease. Very painful, and CBD or cannabinoids, have been shown to help a lot. I can come to your company and say, How do we build this? Whats the best way to build it? Whats the best way to deliver it, and to target Crohns disease? And that is what you work on.

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Canadian Hemp & Cutting Edge CBD Research, With Ascension Sciences - Ministry of Hemp