Transcript: The ReidOut, 10/14/21 – MSNBC

Summary

January 6th committee to move to hold Bannon in criminal contempt. Bannon criminal referral a critical test for the DOJ. Wall Street Journal say Attorney General Garland concerned that jailing insurrectionists for extensive periods could further radicalize them. Showdown between Trump aides and January 6th committee continues.

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: You could tell me why I`m wrong about main courses.

That does it for me. For something much more filling, sustainable, we turn to THE REIDOUT with Joy Reid. Hi, Joy.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: How are you going to say fish is a terrible main course?

MELBER: It`s just -- I`m always hungry within three hours. Is that not a failure of a meal?

REID: You`re eating at the wrong places. I`m -- I`ll get to you actually later. You need better restaurants.

MELBER: Let`s go.

REID: Okay. We`re going to work on you. We`re going fix you. Thank you, Ari Melber. We`re work on you.

MELBER: Peace.

REID: Have a wonderful evening.

Good evening, everyone. We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with the criminal charges that may be in store for Steve Bannon. Today was the day that the alt-right Trump whisperer was supposed to be deposed by the select committee investigating January 6th, instead, he flouted their subpoena, snubbed the committee, and in the process put himself in legal jeopardy. He has now earned himself a criminal citation from that committee, which will be voted on next week.

Now not only was Bannon a key proponent of the big lie that inspired the Capitol siege, he was actively involved behind the scenes. As the committee points out, he was communicating with Trump prior to the insurrection, urging him to focus on January 6th. He attended a meeting with lawmakers at the Willard Hotel about decertifying Joe Biden`s election victory. And he famously hinted on the day before the insurrection that January 6th would be more than just a protest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST TO DONALD TRUMP (voice over): All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this. All hell is going break loose tomorrow. It`s going to be moving. It`s going to be quick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Now, for all his chest-thumping around January 6th, Bannon is now hiding behind Trump`s dubious claims of executive privilege. Why? Because Trump told him to. Bannon`s lawyer wrote the committee yesterday saying, Trump`s counsel stated that they were invoking executive and other privileges and therefore directed as not to produce documents or give testimony.

Yes. But the thing is, Bannon`s no-show before the committee today has opened him up to criminal charges. As Chairman Bennie Thompson said today, we reject his position entirely. The select committee will not tolerate defiance of our subpoenas, so we must move forward with proceedings to refer Mr. Bannon for criminal contempt. The committee will vote on that Tuesday night. Then once it passes the full House, it will go to the Department of Justice, which will decide whether or not to charge Bannon criminally.

And that`s where this becomes a critical test for Attorney General Merrick Garland, namely, will he have the guts and the common sense to enforce the lawful subpoenas of a congressional committee?

Now, the answer should be obvious. But, unfortunately, we have seen this department go soft on Trump and his supporters, including members of the MAGA lynch mob who laid siege to the U.S. Capitol. The Wall Street Journal reports that according to people familiar with the matter, Garland has told other Justice Department officials that he is concerned that jailing protesters who weren`t hard-core extremists for extensive periods could further radicalize them.

Really? Okay. So let me get this straight. Merrick Garland is scared that these people might become more radicalized? I`m sorry, what`s more radical than staging an insurrection? I mean, is Merrick Garland familiar with the well-documented disparities in America`s criminal justice system? Because if he was, it`s hard to imagine him going with that story. I mean, if only the millions of people incarcerated for actual low-level crime in this country could be so lucky.

Garland`s lean towards leniency for the MAGA faithful, hopefully not just because they`re supporters of the former president, so just that he might not actually see eye-to-eye with the select committee when it comes to punishing uncooperative witnesses. So, Mr. Attorney General, sir, please, be my guest and prove me wrong.

With me now is Congressman Bennie Thompson of Mississippi. He is the chair of the select committee to investigate January 6th. And, Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for being here.

I am very interested to get your reaction to the apparent reluctance of the attorney general of the United States to be too hard on the people who broke into our Capitol, threatened the lives of yourself, your staff members, the speaker of the House, threaten to hang Mike Pence, brought a noose, a lynch mob. Multiple people died as a result of what happened. What do you make of the attorney general of the United States saying, oh, if we`re too hard on them, they might get more radicalized, so we shouldn`t be too hard on them?

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Well it`s my wishes, Joy, for the attorney general to decide to expedite the process and the document that we said. Clearly, the law says he has to receive it, present it to a grand jury, indict Mr. Bannon. And so he needs to do his job. We have kept the firewall between our committee and the Department of Justice so they can`t say there was any unfair leverage or influence we were using.

[19:05:08]

But given the timeframe that we are dealing with, Joy, we hope that the attorney general sees the importance of moving ahead with this indictment, moving ahead with locking Steve Bannon up, moving ahead with clearing the air that you can`t conduct an insurrection on the government of the United States of America and nothing happen.

So, clearly, it will be in the Department of Justice`s hand. Our committee on Tuesday evening, we will do our job, but this is just the beginning. I assure you there are others if they do not cooperate, they`ll suffer the same fate. But, clearly, because Mr. Bannon took former Trump`s advice not to cooperate, and it`s well-documented that he was part and parcel to creating what happened.

So, we look forward to our day on next Tuesday. The public is invited. It will be a business meeting of the committee. You will see all the information we have available. And the reason we will put this before the United States House of Representatives, ask for a criminal referral. If we get the votes, the speaker will then transmit that document to Merrick Garland, and he has to do his job.

REID: And here`s -- I`m going put up just for the audience. This is the people -- some of the people who have been subpoenaed so far. So, Steve Bannon, we know, he has already claimed that he is going with executive privilege, even though, let`s just be clear, the White House, the current White House is in charge of who gets executive privilege. They`ve said, no you don`t get it. You have also Kash Patel, Dan Scavino, and Mark Meadows, who was chief of staff.

There has been some postponement because of delays in delivering the subpoenas to Mr. Scavino. They`re engaging. What does that mean, Kash Patel and Mark Meadows are engaging with the committee? Can you tell us what that means?

THOMPSON: Well, it means that they are talking to our lawyers and we`re trying to set up times for them to come in and potentially give depositions or information.

REID: So, they haven`t said no?

THOMPSON: They have not said no. Steve Bannon had said no. That`s why he is getting a criminal referral.

REID: Can you imagine a scenario, sir, of anybody in Mississippi. Let`s make a theoretical case. Black Lives Matter protesters in your home state saying we`ve been subpoenaed, we ain`t coming. Can you imagine any other situation in the criminal justice system where a prosecutor would say in advance, we don`t want to be too hard on them because of their associations with Black Lives Matter? So we fear that that might radicalize them. Can you imagine that being said about anyone other than Trump supporters?

THOMPSON: Well, given the double standard that people of color in my state have had to endure for quite a long time, then that means that most black people who go into jail in Mississippi would come out radicalized. But that`s not the case.

So, clearly, I think Merrick Garland needs to rethink his position that he`s credited with having. We can`t have that. Look, January 6th, Joy, was awful. It was not a movement. People saw it in real-time. They saw it with their own eyes. And so we have been tasked with the responsibility of crafting a solution. Merrick Garland has to do his job in a timely manner in order for us to make sure that this doesn`t happen again.

Steve Bannon and anyone else can`t flout the law and expect nothing to happen. Our committee is unified on this. We`re bipartisan. And I guarantee you on Tuesday night you will see that bipartisanship.

All of us love this country. And what we saw that the insurrectionists did on January 6th should never happen. And I assure you our job is to make sure that we produce a document that guarantees, if adopted, it will never, ever happen again.

REID: Congressman Bennie Thompson, who chairs the January 6th committee, thank you so much. We really appreciate your time tonight. And we will be watching what happens next week. Thank you, Sir. I really appreciate you.

All right, joining now is Daniel Goldman former U.S. -- Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York who served as Majority Council in the first Trump impeachment.

[19:10:01]

I really have the same question for you, about the precedent -- I frankly was shocked reading what Merrick Garland, Attorney General Garland allegedly said about worrying that prosecuting these people for committing this crime would further radicalize them.

I may not -- I know that he was involved during the 1990s when we did prosecute domestic terrorists, and he didn`t worry about that. And, suddenly, I worry that the reason he is saying that is just because they are supporters of a former Republican president.

This was what Rob Reiner, Actor Rob Reiner, who is also a very strong political activist, tweeted. The only reason a prosecutor would choose not to indict Trump is the fear that if he did, he`s cult would start a civil war. But if you don`t indict a man who tried to overthrow the government, then that civil war has already been lost.

And this is what Constitutional Lawyer Laurence Tribe responded, how he responded. He said a sobering thought. So let`s hope A.G. Garland hasn`t already decided not to bring criminal charges against the probably guilty former president.

Do you worry, as I do, that he already has made that decision, and it is a political decision, that he does not want to strongly go after supporters of the former president?

DANIEL GOLDMAN, FMR. HOUSE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY MAJORITY COUNCSEL: I don`t think that he is making that decision based on politics. I actually think that what he is saying has some merit. The problem with what he is saying is that it is very selectively targeted at the Trump supporters for January 6th.

I think it`s generally true that black and brown people across the country who are put in jail for extensive narcotics, nonviolent offenses and other minor offenses, as you point out, go to jail and they are radicalized. I think we need a lot of reform as it comes to our system.

The bigger issue, I think, for Merrick Garland right now is what he is going to do with Donald Trump and what he`s going to do with Steve Bannon. And the reason why it is so important is that if he does not open an investigation, and we have no reason to believe that he has, into Donald Trump and his activity in the lead-up to January 6th, and including January 6th, about all of his efforts to overturn the election, and then if he also does not enforce the Steve Bannon subpoena, by criminally charging Steve Bannon with contempt of Congress, then I fear that his actions will ultimately lead us to fail to understand what exactly happened on January 6th. Because if he doesn`t enforce the subpoena for Steve Bannon, and everyone who comes after him, then the January 6th committee is not going to have time to get to the bottom of what happened.

And then on the other hand, he could do it himself if he looked into Donald Trump`s actions and those around him, the lead-up to January 6th. But by all accounts, his investigation is focusing just on the rioters and not on the senior White House officials, including the former president.

REID: And despite -- yes, the disparities are obvious. If these had been - - and, by the way, like 95, 96, 97 percent of Black Lives Matter protests were entirely peaceful. We`ve seen instances where you`re at infiltration by white nationalists. And I`m not sure any of those have been arrested and prosecuted for coming in. We saw the guy who broke the glass in Minneapolis who had all black on. I don`t even know that guy has been arrested and prosecuted, even though he`s been identified as a white nationalist. There is a pattern here where if you support Donald Trump, or if Donald Trump is involved, this attorney general doesn`t take a whole lot of action.

Sarah Kendzior, she tweeted a pretty brutal thread about Merrick Garland late last night. And she listed some of the things that he has done or failed to do. He defended Donald Trump in a personal lawsuit against E. Jean Carroll, who accused him of rape. He asked a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit against William Barr relating to the beating and gassing of protesters in Lafayette Square, a terrible ;precedent. He refused to release the OLC memo that William Barr used to clear Trump of obstructing justice. He appealed the ruling the Dems had won, seeking to exposed corruption at the Trump Hotel. He wants to implement a 50-year delay, 50 years, on when courts can consider releasing materials from federal grand juries.

At what point does Merrick Garland go from protecting the presidency to looking like he is just simply defending Donald Trump because he thinks that going after Donald Trump in any way will make his supporters sad and will make them mad and might make them violent when they`re already violent?

GOLDMAN: Well, I think he has been very clear that domestic violent extremism is the number one problem. He created a task force to address it. He has doubled the number of prosecutors who are investigating domestic violent extremism. There are over 600 people who have been charged for January 6th, the insurrection.

[19:15:04]

So, yes, he has a lot of institutional concerns that he has to be aware of, and I can`t go line by line and address each of them. But there is no question that the Department of Justice recognizes the seriousness of domestic violent extremism and has been quite active and aggressive in charging everyone for January 6th.

I think the biggest problem that you`re pointing out is less about prosecuting Donald Trump supporters and more about actually seeing the facts, seeing the evidence and investigating the former president and those around him for trying to subvert the election and overturn the will of the people. And that is a really dangerous precedent.

There is obviously a lot partisanship and political concerns involved with doing that. But at some point, we need to take a stand against this anti- democratic behavior. And from what I see in the public sphere, there is a lot of evidence to investigate.

REID: Yes. Saving our democracy is a big job. We`re going see if he is up to it. Because, you know, you can`t save our democracy and also worry about the feelings, the delicate little feelings of MAGA supporters and try to give them exculpation from justice, shield them from justice just because you think they might become even more dangerous. That`s why they`re dangerous, because they`ve been getting away with this stuff for far too long. Do something, Merrick Garland. I would like to be wrong, I would like to be wrong this time, but I`m worried. Daniel Goldman, thank you very much.

Up next on THE REIDOUT, the gospel of Donald Trump is built around one grievance that he just cannot accept that he lost and his feelings are hurt.

Plus, a REIDOUT exclusive, Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro, who was been at the forefront of the battle against the big lie, joins me in his first national television interview since launching his campaign for governor.

Plus, the high price that a black Maryland school superintendent paid for simply stating that racism exists and Black Lives Matter, that superintendent, Dr. Andrea Cane, joins me.

And tonight`s absolute worst, taking a stand for something destructive isn`t courageous, it`s indulgent, and probably deadly for some of the people who look up to you.

THE REIDOUT continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:29]

REID: It is now the dogma of the Republican Party that the insurrection was good, it was great.

That was the messaging last night at a festival of Trumpism in Virginia, under the guise of a rally for a Republican candidate for governor Glenn Youngkin, where this actually happened:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I also want to invite Kim from Chesapeake. She`s carried an American flag that was carried at the peaceful rally with Donald J. Trump on January 6.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ask you all -- I ask you all to rise and join us as Mark Lloyd leads us in the pledge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Face the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: It is idolatrous and deranged. They are now worshipping this totem to the insurrection.

But in the end, the religion of Trump really just boiled down to the fact that decrepit old orange Julius Caesar simply cannot accept that he lost the election. And his followers have built an entire religion around that pathetic fact.

Youngkin himself was not there for the call to worship. And, today, he distanced himself from the pledge that he called weird and wrong.

But at the event led by man of many shirts and unanswered subpoenas Steve Bannon, his twice-impeached former boss phoned in to support Youngkin and lied about the election, as did an Arizona State representative who was a leading proponent of that state`s fraudit.

If mango Mussolini would just wake up and say, I lost, it could just be over. But no, no, no, no.

So they`re prepared to take down the entire Republican Party in his honor. A Michigan right-wing radio host told followers to give power to the Democrats if Republican lawmakers don`t review Trump`s election, the one he clearly lost. And Trump says Republicans won`t vote in 2022 or 2024 if they don`t make solving his big lie their top priority.

You know what? Yes, do that. Do that in fealty to your false idol, that one guy who lost an election, a true believer. They wouldn`t say no, would they, right?

I`m joined now by Democratic strategist Juanita Tolliver and Kurt Bardella, adviser to the DCCC, who is also consulting with the DNC in the Virginia governor`s race.

Juanita, I grew up in church. And the way I understood the Gospel is that there was one God. But, apparently, in the Republican Party, there`s a new one. He`s been replaced by Donald Trump. And his symbols include golden Donald Trumps that they bow down to at CPAC and a flag flown at his insurrection that they now pledge allegiance to.

Your thoughts?

JUANITA TOLLIVER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: This undying faith is what is going to continue to consume the GOP, because they`re so thirsty to tap into the energy of his base. There`s so thirsty for it.

And that threat that you mentioned Trump making as far as, hey, my voters won`t turn out for you in 2022, or the radio host saying vote for Democrats, I`m sure Democrats are hearing that like, I guess we will take it, right? Like, give us the power, please, I think.

But it comes down to Trump yet again flexing on the GOP members who tethered their party to him all for the sake of self-preservation, all for the sake of potential control of Congress. And what they`re going to get back is this consistent blowback.

[19:25:02]

And I`m sure they`re pissed to think about the fact that they`re going to go into the 2022 midterms talking about the 2020 election? This is still a look backwards. And they`re going to do it because they always fall in line. They all have that fear, as you said, as though Trump is some form -- type of deity to them. They`re scared of him. They`re too afraid to cross him.

And this is only going to continue for the foreseeable future, because no member of the GOP has a backbone to stand up to this man. They have shown this time and time again. This is who they are. This is who they align with. And it looks like Youngkin is no different, frankly, right?

He might not have been in the room. But these are words that he believes. This is stuff he said in the GOP primary in Virginia. And he`s just tapping back into that, because, even though he wasn`t in the room yesterday night, he`s still been doing radio with Seb Gorka. He`s been out on the stump with Virginia Senator Chase, who we know repeats these same lies.

So expect Democrats to hit that drum, roll that same playback you just show, Joy, because they know that`s going to help Democrats turn out and they know it`s going to turn off independents and swing voters across the commonwealth.

REID: Yes.

I mean, Kurt, the thing about a god is that they are invisible when they`re not in their golden idle form. So when Trump is not in his gold form at CPAC, where he can see them, he`s invisible. And so Mr. Youngkin may want to put out a little statement saying, well, that was weird and wrong, but he`s now probably got to like coil himself in a ball and wait for their invisible god to hit him, because he can -- even without Twitter.

If Trump were to come out and be like, F. Youngkin, he would panic because he needs those voters, right? He needs the freak vote. He needs the religion vote. And he thinks he can also somehow get the regular moderate normal people vote. So where does he go from here? Can he withstand that was weird and wrong, or is he eventually going to have to take the knee?

KURT BARDELLA, DCCC ADVISER: Oh, come on, Joy. We have seen this play over and over again. He`s going to take the knee, just like Lindsey Graham did, just like Marco Rubio did, just like Ted Cruz has done, just like every single person who was a part of the Republican Party establishment now.

And let`s be clear. This is the Republican Party establishment now, the Steve Bannons, the Donald Trumps, the Josh Hawleys. All of these right- wing, racist, authoritarian wannabes is the establishment Republican Party.

And Glenn Youngkin is first in line wanting to be a part of them. I don`t care what he said in that statement.

If you want to put out a real statement that addresses this, then go out there, Glenn, and say: I don`t want a single person who applauded when that flag came out to vote for me. I don`t want a single person who participated in Charlottesville to vote for me. I don`t want a single person who believes in the great lie to vote for me, I don`t want a single person who thinks that the domestic terrorist who participated in January 6, I don`t want them to vote for me.

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Transcript: The ReidOut, 10/14/21 - MSNBC