Mariame Kaba, Abolitionist and Author, on We Do This Til We Free Us – Teen Vogue

TV: Would it be safe to say that people should keep that same energy?

MK: Of course, people should always keep the same energy. I mean, I don't believe in burning yourself out. I do believe that, you know, you should take breaks and enjoy your life and do a whole bunch of other things too. It's not a 24/7 struggle. And I think we should be counting on, like, a relay race where people tag in and tag out as they need to. But in order for that to really work, we have to have many more people we have to be organizing with. How are we going to incorporate more people and how are we going to do political education with more people? How are we going to get a cohesive vision of a world that we want to inhabit with more people? So that's the work. That's the work going forward. And it's always been the work.

TV: The uprising last summer was one of the most widespread in recent history. What do you see as the most enduring legacy of the 2020 rebellion?

MK: I think it's hubris to suggest that we can tell you what's coming out of a thing that's so recent that's still in play. It's not like people have stopped organizing; [there are] people in Minneapolis on the streets right now around Derek Chauvin's trial. Everything that's going on has an origin and a legacy. And if you understand that, I feel like you're a lot more patient because we're not on the same time clock. I'm on a 500-year clock; I'm not on a seven-month clock. And I think the temporality of organizing and the temporality of living should condition you to be humble because you don't know how what you're doing today will impact the future, or if it will impact the future. You just do the work now by asking better questions than what you were asking six months before then. That's the best we can do.

TV: When prison revolts happen, what can non-incarcerated people do to show support and solidarity?

MK: Take your lead from those folks on the inside. They usually always have demands that they put out for outside people to amplify and support. And there are currently lots of outside organizers who are partnering up with incarcerated resisters and incarcerated comrades who are taking action. So follow their lead. That's my answer.

TV: Lastly, have you felt despair through all of this? If so, what advice would you give to yourself that could be helpful to others who may be feeling despair around abolition and hope that things will change?

MK: My response is that, no, I'm not ever really despairing. I have been disappointed. I have been frustrated. I have been angry. I have all those feelings. But despair for me feels like throwing in the towel and [thinking] like nothing can change. And I know that's not true. I think even people who feel despair sometimes also know that's not true. I think you should find the thing that resonates with you and hold onto that and keep reminding yourself that you're not alone. There are people in every corner of the world struggling to make the world just a tiny bit better for themselves, their families, and their communities, and the fact that we don't know all those people is actually super comforting, because it means that there are enough of us doing this work.

If you are a young person, you definitely have so much to offer and to bring to the world. Your ideas and your thoughts and your dreams and all those things matter so, so much. And I hope you'll bring your stone to the pile, too, and keep building.

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Mariame Kaba, Abolitionist and Author, on We Do This Til We Free Us - Teen Vogue