Daily Archives: January 25, 2020

A popular local choir isnt in perfect harmony this month following the departure of long-time assistant director Tama McGee.

McGee, who had been with the Avondale Childrens Choir for 10 years, said she was recently told she wouldnt be allowed to continue with the choir because shes an atheist. While the choir is open to everyone, it holds practices at the First Baptist Church in Avondale Estates and the church donates the space to the choir, McGee said.

McGee said her atheism wasnt a secret, but it had never come up and she assumed it wasnt a problem because the choir was open to everyone. That all changed, she said, when she was asked to fill out paperwork to change her employment status. She had been employed as a contractor but was told she was required to become a member of the staff. McGee said she was told there would be no change in her pay or hours worked.

In an email to choir families last week, McGee wrote, I was invited to a meeting with [Choir Director Mark Green] and Cathy McCumber [a member of the choirs board of trustees]. During this meeting, I was told that the church had not accepted Marks request to have me continue as Assistant Director because I identify as atheist and that all staff must all identify as Christian.

In a follow-up interview with Decaturish, McGee said until now she was never asked to disclose her religious beliefs. She said Green had written a letter to the church officials in support of bringing her on as a staffer. The church denied his request to employ McGee because someone from the church saw that she identified herself as an atheist in her social media profile, McGee said.

Ive been atheist this whole time, McGee said. Some people from the church didnt think that was OK.

Green, who also serves as an associate pastor at the First Baptist Church, and other church officials didnt return numerous messages seeking comment. Attempts to reach McCumber were unsuccessful. McGee and other people interviewed for this story said Green was supportive of keeping McGee as an assistant director of the Childrens Choir.

Green sent a letter to choir families announcing McGees departure, but he didnt specify why she was going.

Though we are a community choir, the Avondale Childrens Choir operates under the broader umbrella of First Baptist Church Avondale Estates and its program ministries, he wrote. Based on staffing modifications made by the Churchs Personnel Council which were necessitated by IRS regulations, sadly Mrs. Tama McGee will no longer be helping us with the Avondale Childrens Choir. She has served well as our Assistant Director for the past 10 years.

McGee sent an email to the parents after receiving Greens email because she wanted everyone to know the truth.

She wrote, I felt that it was important that the families involved know that it was not my decision to leave and that they have the full story regarding why I would no longer be working with the choir.

McGee explained her reasoning in the follow-up interview.

I didnt want the parents to think I just up and quit and abandoned the choir a week before it was about to start back, she said. I didnt want them to think this chick left Mark high and dry. I wanted them to be aware I did not decide to leave. I was told I could not continue.

That information has roiled the choirs supporters, with some now asking whether they are still welcome there.

Patti Ghezzi, who has a daughter in the choir, says she plans to continue with the group and supports Green. But she worries about what McGees departure means for the choir.

As a non-religious family, we were very concerned, Ghezzi said. She noted that while the practices are held at the church, there has always been a mix of secular and religious music performed.

She noted there are Jewish children in the choir and a lot of families in the choir who arent religious at all. Ghezzi thought the church was progressive and welcoming until now.

Ms. Tama pretty coldly being let go because she is not Christian really sours me on the church, she said, before quickly adding, the Ghezzi family stands with Mr. Mark. We are not leaving the choir.

Parke Kallenberg, a member of the choirs board of trustees, said he wasnt privy to the reasons for the decision to part ways with McGee, but said he had no problem with McGee being assistant director of the choir.

Im a long-term church member and Ive also been on the board for childrens choir for quite some time, he said. I think Tama has done a very good job with the choir. I have no reservations about her being involved with the choir at all.

Cassie White, another parent with a child in the choir, said she was thinking of leaving the choir because of this issue, but said her child wanted to continue singing with the group.

My kid identifies as an atheist, too, White said. Hes outraged.

White said parents were under the impression that the choir is separated from the church.

It has always been our understanding with this choir is its not a church choir, its a choir at the church, White said, adding later that while the choir felt inclusive, McGees departure and the reason she left felt very shocking to us.

Sylvie Oechsner, a member of the choir for 10 years, called the situation devastating for choir members.

I was furious, Oechsner said. I cannot believe that a church especially this church which is all-inclusive and preaches all-inclusivity [would] turn their back on someone who has put so much of their own time and effort into this choir, and they disregard everything shes done, and let her go. I am really hurting for Mr. Mark at the moment because he lost someone valuable to him. Its all around just very upsetting.

Oechsner isnt the only member of the choir hurting right now. McGees daughter sang in the choir but quit because of what happened to her mother.

She doesnt want to talk about it, McGee said.

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Assistant Director of Avondale Children's Choir says she was dismissed because she is atheist - Decaturish.com

We started with a couple of arguments from popular Christian apologists with an evasive approachto the burden of proof in part 1.

Returning to apologist Greg Koukls Professors Ploy in part 1, note that he wasnt making a claim of parity. He wasnt saying, My God hypothesis is in the running just as much as a naturalistic explanation, and I demand a seat in this debate as an equal. That would be bold enough. No, he was going further by taking the role of the Socratic questioner, assuming that he was right and guiding the student (the professor, in his example) through a pre-planned series of questions to a predetermined conclusion.

To the extent that Koukls goal is to help inexperienced Christians ease into the intimidating world of public speaking and debate with antagonistic strangers, thats fine. He encourages them to ask questions to learn, to admit when a topic is new to them, and to ask permission to respond to the atheist after some research. However, his tactics go too far when he ignores that the atheist is defending the default hypothesis (naturalism) and that the Christian is making the extraordinary claim, which must be defended. Attack has its place, but thats subordinate to making and defending the Christian claim. And, of course, his goal isnt to follow the evidence, its to support a predetermined conclusion.

(In case its not obvious, I do want to follow the evidence. Atheism is my provisional conclusion, but evidence could change that. If atheism is incorrect, I want to find the evidence that shows this.)

Weve seen the same contempt for honest debate with Koukls metaphor of arguments committing suicide by being self-defeating. Heres an example: if I said, Im offended at Christians condemning homosexuals; in fact, I think its wrong to condemn anyone for anything, he could reply, Then you shouldnt be condemning me. Or if I said, There are no absolutes, he could reply, You might want to reconsider your position because that certainly sounded like an absolute. Many of these suicides are easily corrected, but Koukl has no interest in engaging with the valid points at the core of any opponents argument. He just wants a technicality with which to dismiss it. (More here.)

Here are two more quick examples that illustrate the wrong approach to the burden of proof. These have nothing to do with religion, so both Christians and atheists should be able to see the flawed thinking without distraction.

Beginning in the 1970s, psychic Uri Geller claimed to be able to perform a number of impressive feats, most famously bending spoons with his mind. While these were part of the standard repertoire of stage magicians, Geller claimed to be able to do them with paranormal powers given to him by aliens, not with stage magic.

Magician and psychic debunker James Randi publicly showed that he could duplicate all of Gellers tricks. Geller admitted that but said that just because Randi could do his tricks with fakery (like any stage magician would) didnt mean that Geller wasnt doing it for real. Randi replied, If Uri Geller bends spoons with divine powers, then hes doing it the hard way.

We cant prove that Christianity is just one more manmade religion, and we cant prove that Uri Geller uses trickery to bend spoons, but in both cases, thats the way to bet. (More on Uri Geller here.)

Heres an example from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the inventor of the ruthlessly empirical detective Sherlock Holmes. Conan Doyle was fascinated with spiritualism, and he discussed this interest with illusionist Harry Houdini. Each was an expert in deception in his own way, but curiously, they were on opposite sides of the spiritualism question. Deaths of people close to Conan Doyle pushed him to see spiritualism as a legitimate way to contact the dead, while Houdini spent much of his life debunking the spiritualist Uri Gellers of his day. Houdini encouraged Conan Doyle to reject spiritualism, pointing out that all his stagecraft was deception.

After Houdinis death in 1926, Conan Doyle wrote a book about spiritualism. Without Houdini to refute him, the book included a chapter summarizing Houdinis feats. In it, Conan Doyle argued that Houdini used supernatural powers but lied about it. Hesaid,

Can any reasonable man read such an account as this and then dismiss the possibility which I suggest as fantastic? It seems to me that the fantasy lies in refusing its serious consideration.... As matters stand, no one can say positively and finally that his powers were abnormal, but the reader will, I hope, agree with me that there is a case to be answered.

(More on Conan Doyle and Houdini here.)

The person making the extraordinary claim has the burden of proof. If I claim theres a teapot orbiting the sun or that pixies and unicorns exist or that were living in the Matrix or that our world came into existence last Thursday, I would have the burden of proof.

Theres another definition of burden of proofthe obligation someone has to defend a statement they madeand thats fair, but keep these two definitions separate. Dont let this definition allow the person making the Christian claim to demand any sort of parity. There is no parity between the extraordinary claim (the theists position) and the default hypothesis (the atheist position). The theist is starting at a deficitdont let them forget that.

Hes not the Messiah, hes a very naughty boy! Brians mum(Monty Python co-founder Terry Jones)

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Image from Mariam Shahab, CC license

Excerpt from:
Who Has the Burden of Proof? Apparently Not the Christian. (4 of 4) - Patheos

A controversy has broken out over the language of slokas that will be rendered during the consecration of the 1,000-year-old Sri Brihadeeswara Temple in Thanjavur, popularly known as the Big Temple, on 5 February this year.

Leading the pack in raking up the controversy is Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (DMK), a party that propagates atheism. The partys president M K Stalin issued a statement last week demanding that the entire consecration of the temple be performed in Tamil.

Stating that the Sri Brihadeeswara Temple was a testimony of Dravidian architecture, he said the Thanjai Big Temple Rights Retrieval Committee wanted the consecration to be done in Tamil.

The committee is holding a meeting in Trichy in support of its demand on Wednesday (22 January).

Tamil Nadu Minister for Tamil, Art, Culture and Archaeology has been quoted by the media as saying that the consecration will be held in both Tamil and Sanskrit.

However, the Thanjai Big Temple Rights Retrieval Committee organiser P Maniarasan, hitting out at the minister, said his organisation has sent a letter to the state Chief Minister Edappadi K Palaniswami, demanding the event be held in Tamil.

Maniarasan said the committees demand has been supported by, apart from Stalin, Marumalarchi DMK founder Vaiko, Naam Tamilar Katchi founder Seeman and former HRCE minister V V Swaminathan.

Maniarasan is the founder of the Tamil National Movement, which espouses the cause of a separate Tamil nation. The organisation has been active in opposing the methane and hydro-carbon projects in Thanjavur.

The consecration of the Big Temple, constructed during the Chola rule, was last held almost 30 years ago, on 9 June 1997. The temple was maintained by Pandya, Naicker and Maratha empires before the Archaeological Survey of India took over its upkeep in 1922.

One of the initial reactions to the statements of leaders such as Stalin and Vaiko, both sworn atheists, is whether they would have the courage to suggest holding of prayers in Tamil in other religious places, particularly mosques.

On social media, some wondered why atheists should be bothered in which languages the slokas are rendered in temples.

Another wondered how the temple was consecrated by Raja Raja Chola, during whose period it was built.

Some wondered why consecrations during the DMK rule headed by the late Karunanidhi were not held in Tamil.

A few pointed out that Dravidianism was only half a century old and a couple of people remarked tongue-in-cheek if these atheists would come for the consecration and sport ash marks on their foreheads.

There were others who pointed out why people who spoke ill of temple architecture were concerned over the language of the slokas.

While the language controversy dodges the run-up to the consecration or kumbabishekam of the temple, the last time when it has held a fire broke out in a thatched shed resulting in the death of 48 people.

The Big Temple was constructed in 1010 AD during the reign of Raja Raja Chola. It is among the tallest in the world and showcases ancient Indias architecture.

Original post:
In Tamil Nadu, Atheists Want To Consecrate A 1,000-Year-Old Temple With Slokas In Tamil Instead Of Sanskrit - Swarajya