{"id":31739,"date":"2017-04-08T16:55:44","date_gmt":"2017-04-08T20:55:44","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.opensource.im\/uncategorized\/no-incentive-algorand-blockchain-sparks-debate-at-cryptography-coindesk.php"},"modified":"2017-04-08T16:55:44","modified_gmt":"2017-04-08T20:55:44","slug":"no-incentive-algorand-blockchain-sparks-debate-at-cryptography-coindesk","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/cryptography\/no-incentive-algorand-blockchain-sparks-debate-at-cryptography-coindesk.php","title":{"rendered":"No Incentive? Algorand Blockchain Sparks Debate at Cryptography &#8230; &#8211; CoinDesk"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><p>    \"Can you say anything about incentives in Algorand?\"  <\/p>\n<p>    That question was directed to Silvio Micali, an MIT professor    who had just delivered a keynote on his theoretical    proof-of-stake (PoS) system at the Financial Cryptography and    Data Security conference in Malta, yesterday. And the    Turing-award winner's answer set a few back on their heels.  <\/p>\n<p>    \"Incentives are the hardest thing to do,\" Micali said.  <\/p>\n<p>    In 30 years as a cryptographer, he had spent the last 10    working on just that issue.  <\/p>\n<p>    As he explained, when you put incentives out there, people    learn how to use those incentives for making money in ways that    are nearly impossible to predict. He pointed to bitcoin as a    prime example, saying its creator probably never imagined    bitcoin'sincentive structure would lead    toindustrial-scale mining pools.  <\/p>\n<p>    Micali also argued that users do not need to be rewarded for    trivial computations. And that while bitcoin miners are    compensated for their work, validators, who in contrast do not    have to invest in expensive equipment and electricity, are not    rewarded.  <\/p>\n<p>    Hesaid:  <\/p>\n<p>      \"We must use incentives as a last resort. I believe I can      [make Algorand work without incentives], but I have no formal      proof that I can, because these formal proofs are much harder      than the proofs of Algorand.\"    <\/p>\n<p>    Intended as a public blockchain,     Algorand contains a novel version of Byzantine agreement    with nine steps, where players are replaced in each round of    communication. The protocol tolerates one-third bad actors, and    Micali said he assumes the majority of the system's users are    honest.  <\/p>\n<p>    Yet, the idea of a consensus algorithm that offers no    incentives runs counter to the thinking of many, including    those working on the decentralized application network    ethereum, a blockchain projectworking on a PoS    system of its owncalled Casper.  <\/p>\n<p>    \"We basically explicitly put incentives front and center,\" said    Vitalik Buterin, founder of ethereum. He described ethereum's    approach as fundamentally about how much money stakeholders can    lose, as opposed tothe approach taken with Algorand.  <\/p>\n<p>    \"One thing I would be concerned about, is if you have no    incentives at all, then that means you have no incentive not to    just be lazy and go offline,\"Buterin told CoinDesk.  <\/p>\n<p>    Ethereum developer Vlad Zamfir, who is heavily invested in    building Casper, had stronger words. He stated he simply did    not think such a system would work.  <\/p>\n<p>    \"My whole perspective on the space is, like, polar opposite. I    don't believe the 'majority of people are honest' assumption,\"    he said, adding:  <\/p>\n<p>      \"There is a small number of people who control most of the      coins in most [PoS] systems. It is not that hard for people      to coordinate to undermine protocol guarantees.    <\/p>\n<p>    Cornell associate professor Emin Gn Sirer, also questioned the    idea Micali put forth.  <\/p>\n<p>    Sirer pointed out that, while it'strue bitcoin's    participants are not always fully incentivized, a lot of people    run full nodes altruistically.  <\/p>\n<p>    \"But to go from that and to say, since bitcoin works and it is    not fully incentivized, ergo, any system will work  that is    not incentivized. There is a gap there,\" he said.  <\/p>\n<p>    But some had an altogether different take on the matter.  <\/p>\n<p>    Charles Hoskinson, CEO of blockchain technology firm IOHK,    pointed to BitTorrent as an example of a system that works just    fine while not being incentivized at all. No token exists and    you aren't paid anything to share files on the network.  <\/p>\n<p>    Another example he points to is [emailprotected],    where thousands of people freely donate idle processing power    for disease research.  <\/p>\n<p>    \"It is an open question of whether you need incentives or not,    and I dont think it can be determined in an academic model. It    is actually going to be determined by evidence. You launch    something and you see what happens,\" he said.  <\/p>\n<p>    The comments nonetheless suggest that Algorand's eventual    launch could be one to watch, especially for those who question    whether the platform's incentive plan will work or not.  <\/p>\n<p>    Correction:This article has been    revised to reflectEmin Gn Sirer's title.  <\/p>\n<p>    Disclaimer:CoinDesk received a    subsidy to attend the Financial Cryptography and Data Security    conference from the event's organizers.  <\/p>\n<p>    Image via Amy Castor for CoinDesk  <\/p>\n<p>    AlgorandIncentivesProof-of-Stake  <\/p>\n<p><!-- Auto Generated --><\/p>\n<p>More:<br \/>\n<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.coindesk.com\/no-incentive-algorand-blockchain-sparks-debate-cryptography-event\/\" title=\"No Incentive? Algorand Blockchain Sparks Debate at Cryptography ... - CoinDesk\">No Incentive? Algorand Blockchain Sparks Debate at Cryptography ... - CoinDesk<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p> \"Can you say anything about incentives in Algorand?\" That question was directed to Silvio Micali, an MIT professor who had just delivered a keynote on his theoretical proof-of-stake (PoS) system at the Financial Cryptography and Data Security conference in Malta, yesterday. And the Turing-award winner's answer set a few back on their heels<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1600],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-31739","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-cryptography"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/31739"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=31739"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/31739\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=31739"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=31739"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/euvolution.com\/open-source-convergence\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=31739"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}