Eric Holder: Snowden did public service by leaking secrets

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Monday, May 30, 2016, 12:37 PM

Former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder thinks fugitive leaker Edward Snowden actually performed a "public service" when he passed on classified NSA secrets to journalists.

"We can certainly argue about the way in which Snowden did what he did, but I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made," Holder told David Axelrod on his CNN-produced podcast "The Axe Files."

Holder, who served as U.S. attorney general from 2009 to 2015 while Snowden was leaking top secret information, nevertheless maintained that the former contractor should face consequences.

"Now I would say that doing what he did and the way he did it was inappropriate and illegal," Holder said, adding that Snowden's actions "harmed American interests."

Oliver Stone reveals secret meetings with Edward Snowden

"I know there are ways in which certain of our agents were put at risk, relationships with other countries were harmed, our ability to keep the American people safe was compromised," he said.

"I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done," Holder added. "But, I think in deciding what an appropriate sentence should be, I think a judge could take into account the usefulness of having had that national debate."

Snowden said earlier this year that he would consider returning to the U.S. if he was granted a fair trial for his crimes.

After sparking global outrage in 2013 when he first began leaking classified information to journalists about the U.S. government's previously secret eavesdropping powers, the former NSA contractor took off for safer ground and was charged by the U.S. with espionage charges that could land him in prison for up to 30 years.

He first fled to Hong Kong, and then Moscow, where he has was granted permission to remain for at least three years.

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Eric Holder: Snowden did public service by leaking secrets ...

Eric Holder speaks at the Justice Department on March 4, 2015. Carolyn Kaster / AP, file

"We can certainly argue about the way in which Snowden did what he did, but I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made," Holder told former Obama White House adviser David Axelrod on an episode of

But the former attorney general was quick to add that Snowden who leaked explosive documents about American government surveillance programs while working as a contractor for the National Security Agency in 2013 acted in a way that was "inappropriate and illegal."

"I think he harmed American interests," Holder said. "I know there are ways in which certain of our agents were put at risk, relationships with other countries were harmed, our ability to keep the American people safe was compromised."

Holder called on Snowden, who has been living in exile in Moscow for the last three years, to come back to the United States to face the "consequence" of his actions.

"He's broken the law, in my view," Holder said. "He needs to get lawyers, come on back and ... see what he wants to do: Go to trial, try to cut a deal. I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done."

Holder added that a judge "could take into account the usefulness of having had that national debate" in deciding any "appropriate sentence" for Snowden.

Snowden claimed in an interview with the BBC late last year that he had "volunteered to go to prison with the (U.S.) government many times" but had not heard back from the American government.

The Department of Justice at the time would not confirm or deny that assertion.

The revelations contained in the material leaked by Snowden set off a national conversation about the give-and-take between national security and civilian privacy.

Holder served as attorney general from 2009 to 2015. He has since

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Eric Holder: Edward Snowden Performed 'Public Service'

Edward Snowden.

Former US Attorney General Eric Holder has admitted that whistleblower Edward Snowden performed a "public service" by opening a debate about surveillance. However, speaking to David Axelrod of CNN and Chicago Institute of Politics podcast The Axe Files, he also said Snowden still needed to face penalties for what he did.

"We can certainly argue about the way in which Snowden did what he did, but I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made," he said. In a 2014 interview, he was much more hardline, saying that Snowden would have to plead guilty to even consider coming home.

He added, "He's broken the law in my view. He needs to get lawyers, come on back, and decide, see what he wants to do: Go to trial, try to cut a deal. I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done. But I think in deciding what an appropriate sentence should be, I think a judge could take into account the usefulness of having had that national debate." You can listen to the full episode here.

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Eric Holder: Edward Snowden performed a 'public service' - CNET

Edward Snowden appears on a live video feed broadcast from Moscow at a 2015 event. Photograph: Marco Garcia/AP

The former US attorney general Eric Holder has said the National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden performed a public service by starting a debate over government surveillance techniques.

Related: How the Pentagon punished NSA whistleblowers | Mark Hertsgaard

Speaking on a podcast hosted by David Axelrod, a former campaign strategist for Barack Obama, Holder emphasized, however, that Snowden must still be punished.

We can certainly argue about the way in which Snowden did what he did, but I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made, Holder said, in an hourlong discussion on The Axe Files.

Now, I would say that doing what he did and the way he did it was inappropriate and illegal.

In June 2013, in one of the biggest document leaks in American history, Snowden revealed to media outlets including the Guardian that the NSA conducted indiscriminate bulk surveillance of US citizens. The agency said this mass data collection had been kept secret in order to protect Americans.

Holder, who led the justice department during the document leak, said Snowden harmed American interests by releasing the files.

I know there are ways in which certain of our agents were put at risk, relationships with other countries were harmed, our ability to keep the American people safe was compromised, Holder told Axelrod.

There were all kinds of re-dos that had to be put in place as a result of what he did, and while those things were being done, we were blind in certain really critical areas. So what he did was not without consequence.

Though Holder said Snowden should return to the US to face trial, he added that any judge who tried him should account for his contribution to the debate about mass surveillance.

I think in deciding what an appropriate sentence should be, I think a judge could take into account the usefulness of having had that national debate, Holder said.

I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in

Snowden has said repeatedly that he would return to the US if he could get a fair trial.

But, as I think youre quite familiar, the Espionage Act does not permit a public interest defense, Snowden told a University of Chicago event earlier this month. Youre not allowed to speak the word whistleblower at trial.

Snowden, who was a contractor for the NSA, has lived in Russia in the years following the leaks. Russia first granted him temporary asylum, then in 2014 gave him a three-year residency.

Snowden responded to Holders comments on Twitter on Monday night.

The frontrunners in the 2016 presidential race, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, have said Snowden should be punished, though they disagree in how serious that punishment should be.

In a Democratic debate in October, Clinton said Snowden should return and be put on trial. Bernie Sanders, now the only other Democratic contender, agreed, though he said he thought Snowden played a very important role in educating the American public.

In 2013, Trump implied that Snowden should be executed. In March, he said the US should get Snowden back from Russia because he is a spy. The Kremlin said it would not entertain such a plan.

Related: CIA ex-boss: secretive spooks tolerated in UK more than in US

Holder has shown some leniency toward Snowden before, but his use of the phrase public service turned heads.

In January 2014, Holder told an audience at the University of Virginia that the government could accept a plea deal with Snowden if he were to return to the US and plead guilty to criminal charges.

He reiterated the possibility of a plea deal last year, after stepping down from his post as the countrys top law enforcement officer in April 2015 and returning to private practice with the Washington law firm Covington & Burling.

I certainly think there could be a basis for a resolution that everybody could ultimately be satisfied with, Holder told Yahoo News in July 2015. He added that the disclosures spurred a necessary debate.

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Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed 'public service ...

"We can certainly argue about the way in which Snowden did what he did, but I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made," Holder told David Axelrod on "The Axe Files," a podcast produced by CNN and the University of Chicago Institute of Politics.

"Now I would say that doing what he did -- and the way he did it -- was inappropriate and illegal," Holder added.

"He harmed American interests," said Holder, who was at the helm of the Justice Department when Snowden leaked U.S. surveillance secrets. "I know there are ways in which certain of our agents were put at risk, relationships with other countries were harmed, our ability to keep the American people safe was compromised. There were all kinds of re-dos that had to be put in place as a result of what he did, and while those things were being done we were blind in certain really critical areas. So what he did was not without consequence."

Snowden, who has spent the last few years in exile in Russia, should return to the U.S. to deal with the consequences, Holder noted.

"I think that he's got to make a decision. He's broken the law in my view. He needs to get lawyers, come on back, and decide, see what he wants to do: Go to trial, try to cut a deal. I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done."

"But," Holder emphasized, "I think in deciding what an appropriate sentence should be, I think a judge could take into account the usefulness of having had that national debate."

At a University of Chicago Institute of Politics event earlier this month, Snowden -- appearing via videoconference from Russia -- said he would return to the U.S. if he could receive a fair trial.

"I've already said from the very first moment that if the government was willing to provide a fair trial, if I had access to public interest defenses and other things like that, I would want to come home and make my case to the jury," Snowden told University of Chicago Law Prof. Geoffrey Stone. "But, as I think you're quite familiar, the Espionage Act does not permit a public interest defense. You're not allowed to speak the word 'whistleblower' at trial."

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest on Tuesday said President Barack Obama does not believe Snowden has performed a public service.

"What Mr. Holder is articulating there is the view of the administration, which is specifically that Mr. Snowden has been charged with serious crimes," Earnest said. "He should return to the United States, he should be afforded due process and that's essentially how this situation should be handled. But Mr. Snowden has not done so."

"I don't think there's any question about that," Holder told Axelrod. "The fact that he questioned the legitimacy of President Obama by questioning where he was born, what he's said about Mexicans...I think there's a race-based component to his campaign. I think he appeals too often to the worst side of us as Americans."

CNN's Allie Malloy contributed to this report.

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Eric Holder now says Edward Snowden performed 'public service ...

President Obama doesnt agree with his former attorney general that classified-info leaker Edward Snowden performed a public service when he leaked classified data to the media.

The president has had the opportunity to speak on this a number of times, and I think a careful review of his public comments would indicate that he does not, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Tuesday of whether Obama shared ex-AG Eric Holders view of Snowden.

His statement came a day after Holder said during the podcast The Axe Files that the debate over secrecy and privacy sparked by the Snowden case was a positive development.

Hes broken the law, in my view. He needs to get lawyers, come on back and decide, see what he wants to do: go to trial, try to cut a deal, Holder told former Obama aide David Axelrod.

He added, I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done. We can certainly argue about the way in which Snowden did what he did, but I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made.

Earnest said Obama would agree with much of that sentiment but would not characterize Snowdens alleged crimes as a public service.

I would point out that even Mr. Holder pointed out in that interview that Hes broken the law, in my view, Earnest said.

Snowden, 32, turned to Twitter to mockingly compare the evolving schools of thought on his leak.

2013: Its treason! 2014: Maybe not, but it was reckless 2015: Still, technically it was unlawful 2016: It was a public service but, he wrote.

Snowden leaked classified information as a contractor for the National Security Agency in 2013.

He fled to Hong Kong and then Russia, where he lives under the protection of strongman Vladimir Putin.

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Obama doesnt share Holders view of Edward Snowden | New ...

Former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden speaks via video conference at Johns Hopkins University in February. Juliet Linderman /AP hide caption

Former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden speaks via video conference at Johns Hopkins University in February.

Former Attorney General Eric Holder says Edward Snowden's leak was "inappropriate and illegal" but "I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made."

Holder, who was attorney general when Snowden leaked highly sensitive documents that detailed some of the work of the National Security Agency, made the comments in an interview with former Obama adviser David Axelrod.

Holder went on to say: "He harmed American interests. I know there are ways in which certain of our agents were put at risk, relationships with other countries were harmed, our ability to keep the American people safe was compromised. There were all kinds of re-dos that had to be put in place as a result of what he did, and while those things were being done we were blind in certain really critical areas. So what he did was not without consequence."

After leaking the documents to The Guardian and other publications, the former NSA contractor fled, ending up in Russia where he remains exiled.

In the past, Snowden has said he is willing to return to the U.S. if he is afforded a fair trial. Snowden is charged with espionage and theft.

Yesterday, Snowden tweeted:

In his interview, Holder also said that it's time for Snowden to make a decision.

"I think that he's got to make a decision," Holder said. "He's broken the law in my view. He needs to get lawyers, come on back, and decide, see what he wants to do: Go to trial, try to cut a deal. I think there has to be a consequence for what he has done."

Holder continued: "But I think in deciding what an appropriate sentence should be, I think a judge could take into account the usefulness of having had that national debate."

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Former AG Holder Says Edward Snowden's Leak Was A 'Public ...

On Tuesday at Fusion'sReal Future Fair, Edward Snowden took the stage via Snowbot to discuss the future of the surveillance state under Trump, the political power ofsocial networks, and how technology has changed what it means to be in exile.

He also discussed his controversial tweet from mid-October, where he wrote that there"may never be a safer election in which to vote for a third option," citing a New York Times poll.

https://twitter.com/snowden/status/789574275518828544

As we now know, these polls were off-base by afairly significant degree. Some have criticized Snowden for encouraging folks to vote third-party when they could haveswung key states away from Donald Trump.

Snowden didn't directly apologize for his stance, telling Real Future Senior Editor Kashmir Hill that votingfor someone you don't believe inis "fundamentally un-American."

"It's inappropriate to say people should vote for someone who doesn't represent their interests, because then we're getting into a politics that are against choice," Snowden said.

At the start of the program, Snowden recommended welook outside the traditional political structure for hope, sayingthathe doesn't have much faith in any president to affect significant change.

"You can't sit around when you see a problem, and hope for a hero to come by and make things better," Snowden said. "Technology works differently than law. Technology knows no jurisdiction."Snowden also said that because of technology he is still able to have a voice:"We are witnessing the end of exile as an effective tool for political repression."(He admits, however, that he hasn't been able to play with manyaugmented reality tools like Pokemon Go.)

There are inherent issues with political speech on technology platforms, of course, as companies like Facebook and Twitter settheir own internal standards. Snowden warned about the dangers of corporationsmonopolizing technology platforms, and what that could mean for our politicalclimate.

"They trample not just customers, but paradigms," he said.

Closing, Snowden saidfolks who want topersonally to fight back against surveillance do more than just rely on encryption tools. He urges them todonate to organizations that are dedicated to ensuring the privacy of the population, like the ACLU, EFF, and Freedom Of The Press, where he is the chairman.

"They can't do this without your support," he said.

Michael Rosen is a reporter for Fusion based out of Oakland.

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Edward Snowden thinks we should look outside politics for hope - Fusion

ANALYSIS/OPINION:

The question of what kinds of communications got Donald Trump aides caught up in incidental U.S. wiretaps may be answered by the ultra-leaker on such matters: Edward Snowden.

Mr. Snowden, a former National Security Agency contractor, provided The Guardian in 2013 with top secret documents that showed the U.S. wiretaps a wide array of embassies in Washington, friend and foe.

The bugging would be done under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which allows the NSA to tap electronic communications of virtually any foreign operative. Targets do not have to be suspected spies or terrorists to fetch surveillance. They can simply be foreign agents conducting diplomacy.

Mr. Trump, as the Republican presidential nominee and then as president elect, would have attracted a number of phone calls and emails from Washington diplomats seeking any information they could then relay to their respective capitals about the unpredictable incoming president.

It is likely that these types of communications become part of intelligence reports.

Susan Rice, President Barack Obamas National Security Adviser, asked for dozens of such reports from intelligence agencies, Bloomberg View reported. She requested that the names of Mr. Trumps aides be unmasked, in other words mentioned by name in the reports instead of being redacted. FISA was written to protect the privacy by masking innocent U.S. citizens incidentally caught up in a wiretap.

The Snowden-provided documents show that in 2010 the U.S. bugged the European Union mission in New York and its embassy in Washington. Other targeted embassies in Washington included, France, Italy, Greece, Japan, Mexico, South Korea, India and Middle East countries.

Today, it is known that the U.S. bugged the Russian embassy. It intercepted calls between retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, then Mr. Trumps incoming National Security adviser, and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the transition.

Mr. Flynns name was unmasked by the Obama administration, and the contents of the calls were leaked to the news media. Legal experts say the leaking amounts to a felony.

The Guardian said one of the spy operations was dubbed Dropmire. It involved placing a bug in the EUs fax machine in Washington.

Other code names for such intercepts were Perdido, Blackfoot, Wabash, and Powell.

Blackfoot and Wabash were operations against the French mission at the United Nations and its embassy in Washington.

Mr. Snowden lives in exile in Moscow.

Presidents change and lawmakers come and go, but The Washington Times is always here, and FREE online. Please support our efforts.

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Susan Rice: Edward Snowden may hold key in 'unmasking' scandal - Washington Times

They had never imagined that a knock at their door one late summer night in 2013 would trigger a dramatic chain of events that would rewrite the course of their lives.

Four years on, facing daily threats and the imminent fear of deportation, Sri Lankan national Supun Kellapatha and his partner Nadeeka Nonis say they have no regrets about opening the door. They were glad they welcomed a tall, nervous-looking American man into their tiny apartment.

The stranger at the door that night was the whistleblower Edward Snowdena former US intelligence contractor who leaked thousands of classified government files to journalists from a hotel room in Hong Kong. For two weeks after that leak in June 2013, Snowden was untraceable. As American intelligence agencies launched a global manhunt, the most wanted dissident in the world quietly shunted between the homes of three refugee families in the most impoverished, cramped, filthy, neglected ghettos of Hong Kong before he boarded a plane for Moscow.

Now, the people who sheltered Snowden are themselves looking for protection. As their home countries allegedly try to get them extradited back and remaining in Hong Kong becomes unfeasible, the families are seeking asylum in Canada with the help of Robert Tibbo, the Hong Kong-based human rights lawyer who brought Snowden to Supuns door that night. Tibbo also represents the refugees.

We put Ed where no one would lookin a netherworld with people who have an instinct to protect, said Tibbo. He was confident that this group of people, who had so much to lose if Snowden was caught in their midst, would not betray him or his high-profile client.

They did not.

The refugeesKellapatha, Nonis and their two children; Ajith Puspakumara, a former soldier also from Sri Lanka; and Vanessa Rodel and her daughter, who are from the Philippineskept their word and their silence, until the 2016 Oliver Stone movie Snowden revealed where the fugitive hid when he went underground in Hong Kong. It was impossible to keep their names a secret anymore.

Unwitting public figures now, they remain guarded when they speak about Snowden, insisting that they had no idea who he was when they took him in. What they did know was that like them, he too was a refugeean anxious man outside his home country, looking for shelter.

Early the next morning, so early that it was still dark, he asked me to go and buy the newspaper, recalled Kellapatha I didnt even look at it till I came back and gave it to him. Then when I saw it, I was shocked. He looked at the photograph on the front page of The South China Morning Post and asked his houseguest, Edward, is this you? To which the stranger replied, Yes, its me.

I told him, dont worry, you are safe, Kellapatha said.

Kellapatha gave him the only mattress in his two-room apartment thats no bigger than 125 square feet, while his family slept on the floor. Concerned about what to feed a westerner, Kellapatha bought him spaghetti and burgers from McDonalds with money provided by Tibbo. He neednt have worriedwhat Snowden enjoyed most was Noniss homemade chicken curry and daal. And cake, Nonis said, as a rare smile breaks out on her face at the memory. He loves sweets very much.

Kellapatha and Nonis are both refugees who fled persecution and torture in Sri Lanka. Kellapatha, 32, came to Hong Kong in 2005 to escape political harassmenthe says he was ill-treated and tortured by people connected to the political opposition. Nadeeka, who is 33, came in 2007. She is a former seamstress who fled Sri Lanka after years of repeated rape at the hands of a politically powerful man. The couple did not know each other in their homeland. They met in Hong Kong and now have two children together. Their five-year-old daughter and infant sonplus Rodels daughterare stateless because all three children were born in Hong Kong while their parents case for asylum is pending.

It could take several years for the Hong Kong government to take a call on their asylum applications. A successful outcome is unlikely, though. Out of the nearly 9,000 refugee claims made since 2009, Hong Kong has approved just 52. Thats an acceptance rate of less than one per cent.

While Hong Kong is not a signatory to the United Nations Refugee Convention, it is still bound by a court of final appeal rulingit must screen asylum seekers to determine if they risk persecution. If they are at risk, they are referred to the United Nations high commissioner for refugees for resettlement to a third country.

According to Tibbo, the refugees who sheltered Snowden are running out of time. Since their names were made public, life hasnt been the same for any of them. He says they are being targeted by both Sri Lankan officials and the Hong Kong government because of their role in Snowdens great escape. Sri Lankan officials, he claims, have even harassed the relatives of the asylum-seeking families at home, demanding to know their whereabouts in Hong Kong.

Its a matter of life and death, said Tibbo. He claims he has evidence that Sri Lankan police officials came to Hong Kong to try and track down the refugeesan allegation Sri Lanka denies. If the refugees are forced to return home, they say they fear they will face a violent future.

Here in Hong Kong, they keep a low profile. We dont go anywhere, we dont talk to anyone, Kellapatha said. I tell my daughter, you have no friends, we have no friends.

Neither their daughter, nor Rodels little girl, has gone to school since November because the refugees say the International Social Services, the government agency responsible for the welfare of asylum seekers, has withdrawn financial assistance, leaving the refugees with barely enough money for tuition fees or for basic food, clothes and transport in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

They cannot fend for themselves because Hong Kong does not allow asylum seekers to work, study, volunteer or even beg while they wait for the government to determine their statusa process that could take over a decade.

We have to take our children everywhere we go, Nonis said. Its like having a pet. They just sit, eat and sleep. What kind of childhood is this? She looks at her five-year-old who has fallen asleep curled up on an office chair in Tibbos office.

All three families currently live in safe houses organised by their lawyers. They are desperate to get out.

Tibbo is collaborating with three Canadian lawyers who formed a non-profit organisation called For the Refugees to support these families. On March 10, they announced they have officially petitioned Canada to accept these asylum seekers.

On the same day, the families got a big show of support from their grateful houseguest. Snowden tweeted: The families that sheltered me have formally filed for asylum in Canada. Let us pray Canada protects them in kind.

Meanwhile, they are living off fundsapproximately $100,000 collected by various crowd-funding efforts online.

None of Snowdens angels, as they have come to be known, say they regret risking their lives to shelter him.

When he left, he hugged us, said Nonis. We wanted him to stay forever.

I dont have regrets for helping him, Kellapatha said. He told me whatever he did, he did it for the right thing.

This post first appeared on Scroll.in. We welcome your comments at ideas.india@qz.com.

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Edward Snowden's guardian angels in Hong Kong have been ... - Quartz