Everyone is too touchy, Phillips, the director of Joker, tells me but Bombshell filmmaker Roach feels otherwise

I have been obsessing lately over the decline of big-screen comedies and the fact that some of the leading comedy directors of our time have turned serious in recent years, from Hangover creator Todd Phillips with his dark global hit Joker to Jay Roach, going from Austin Powers to Game Change and now Bombshell.

This fall, Joker has powered its way to $1 billion at the global box office, the benchmark usually set by superhero sagas rather than social commentary, while the mid-December release of Bombshell takes on sexual harassment at Fox News. Neither film is funny, and both are ambitious swings by two top directors.

I raised the issue with each of them in recent interviews. Phillips has been quoted saying that woke culture, a hypersensitive and reactive political correctness, has driven people like him from the comedy genre. He went deeper on this with me. Everyone is too touchy, Phillips told me. Everyone is so effing touchy.

Roach had a different perspective. He called on the studios to loosen their purse strings, to fund comedies at the levels of years past so artists like him can find the excitement in ambitious comedy again. He said the studios are to blame for putting comedies into a death spiral.

Also Read: Director Todd Phillips on Making 'Joker': Art Is 'Meant to Be Complicated'

Jay Roach (Photo by Corina Marie Howell for TheWrap)

Both views are a study in a changed landscape in Hollywood. Comedies from Stuber to Holmes and Watson have faltered at the box office in the last year, leading to both hand-wringing and theories about why this is the case.

When I asked Phillips why some of my favorite comedy directors including Roach and Adam McKay (Anchorman, The Big Short) are turning to more serious-minded material, he told me, somewhat aggressively: Do you want me to tell you why it is? Comedy is based in truth. Truth has become offensive. You get crippled trying to do comedy if truth is offensive. I can think of 10 jokes from the nine studio comedies Ive made that would cause an issue on Twitter nowadays.

Then he cited Dave Chappelles latest stand-up special, released on Netflix in August to almost immediate outcry over jokes about transgender people as well as abuse allegations against Michael Jackson and R. Kelly. Dave might have done the most brilliant hour of stand-up called Sticks & Stones. Its literally called Sticks & Stones think about it, Phillips said. Hes getting this whole thing where the far left sounds like the far right when it fits their agenda.

In making Joker, Phillips said, I was like, OK, let me go over here and play in this sandbox a little bit. Maybe with Jay and Adam, its politics. Maybe its me with messing around with comic book movies, messing up that sandbox. Im not speaking for Jay and Adam, but for me the things people like about The Hangover the outrageousness or the things people like about Old School the irreverence is based in truth. If truth is now offensive, which it seems to be, lets just put that aside for a minute.

Also Read: 10 Comedy Directors Who Went Serious, From Jay Roach to Todd Phillips (Photos)

Todd Phillips with Joaquin Phoenix on the set of Joker (Warner Bros.)

When I spoke to Roach earlier this month, he disagreed with Phillips. Its not political correctness thats killed big-screen comedy, Roach said, its the studios business model.

I do wonder whats happened to the studios ability to rally the right people, get the right scripts and make comedies, he said. And one of the things that I have noticed is that theres been a tremendous trend, its kind of a self-perpetuating spiral downwards in budget on comedies: They dont do quite so well, then you make them come in for less, then they do less well.

The result, said Roach, is a vicious cycle. It takes money and time and room for actors to try things and experiment and fail and fail again, and fail again and then you succeed, he said. The studios feel like well just keep making them for lower money and that reduces the risk. But Ive found, in the comedies I made because we had 50 days, or 55 days of shooting, the actors could try things and we would cut at a three-hour movie and just use the best half of it. Now you only get to shoot an hour-and-a-half movie.

So how do you make a successful movie comedy? You get really funny people and hire possibly expensive actors to come in and do their best work and give them a ton of time to do it and then let them go for some spectacle, he said. I remember when Something About Mary came out, it was around the time that our Austin films came out, I was like, Oh, my God, Im so happy they did this and that it made a lot of money because it meant we could keep doing that.

Also Read: A 'Bombshell,' 'Parasite' and Brutality Are Shaking Up the Oscar Race

Roach admitted that the current state of the U.S. is driving him to focus on politics. I dont have anything against going back and doing comedy. Im just for some reason driven, just freakin driven, to understand whats going on in our world, he said. And these films are what make me work twice, three times as hard as I might on something else. (That said, he added, If I had a great comedy script right now and it had great characters and was about something, I would be so quick to do it.)

While it might not be a shock that Phillips and Roach have matured into more sophisticated subjects, it is surprising that Hollywood has not found a new generation of comedic filmmakers to fill the void.

Phillips insisted that younger directors are finding other mediums. Theres many types of comedies, he said. Theres Austin Powers. Ill laugh at Austin Powers, but thats not my kind of comedy. My type of comedy has always been grounded in reality, and then make the situations absurd. I guess my point is its not a big of leap coming from Hangover or Old School to this (Joker), to me, as it appears for some other people.

So you think what youre doing is safer than comedy?, I asked Phillips. His reply: I did think it was safer than R-rated comedy at this moment.

He went on: I dont mean to be reductive, but these papers like TheWrap and Hollywood Reporter, Deadline, Ive seen articles over the last few years of like, What happened to the R-rated comedy? Thats what it is. Everyone is too touchy. Everyone is so effing touchy.

While some filmmakers get their starts making cheaply made B-movies or horror films, there's a new crop of directors emerging who previously cut their teeth making classic comedies. And while most haven't abandoned their sense of humor entirely, they've finally been recognized at both the box office and awards circuit by veering into prestige pictures. The latest example is Todd Phillips, the director of "Joker," which as the darkly disturbed origin story of the iconic Batman villain is no laughing matter. Here are some other directors who have re-emerged as more than just funny men.

Jay Roach - Comedy Classic: "Austin Powers"/Dramatic Turn: "Trumbo"

Jay Roach helmed not one but two comedy franchises before turning into something of a political wonk and directing the TV movie "Recount" in 2008 about the infamous 2000 election debacle in Florida. He told Vulture that he always admired the directors who find the grey area between comedy and drama like Alexander Payne and Hal Ashby. "Movies that have so much pain and angst yet fully committed humor. Those are the kind of movies I grew up on."

Adam McKay - Comedy Classic: "Anchorman"/Dramatic Turn: "The Big Short"

Movies like "The Big Short" and "Vice" are rooted in comedy and satire because of McKay's intention to capture the absurdity and complexity of a crazy time in recent political and economic history. McKay said in an interview with The New York Times Magazine that he hopes his films capture that murky tone, and that he's not the only funny person suddenly wading into these waters. "Were living in a world with a tone that none of us has ever experienced. Pipe bombs are being sent to the leaders of a political party, and the guy who made Dilbert is saying, You know the bombs were really made by left-wingers because they didnt work, McKay said.

Tom Shadyac - Comedy Classic: "Ace Ventura: Pet Detective"/Dramatic Turn: "Brian Banks"

Despite being one of Hollywood's top comedy directors following Jim Carrey movies like "Ace Ventura," "Liar Liar" and "Bruce Almighty," Tom Shadyac found he couldn't get work in Hollywood after both the bomb of his 2007 film "Evan Almighty" and after he suffered a life threatening concussion in an accident. But he told the LA Times he found a new outlook on life and Hollywood in directing the story of "Brian Banks," a college football star wrongly convicted of a crime.

Todd Phillips - Comedy Classic: "The Hangover"/Dramatic Turn: "Joker"

Todd Philips told Vanity Fair in support of "Joker" that he's left comedy filmmaking entirely after feeling that "woke" culture drove his bro comedies like "Old School," "Road Trip" and most notably "The Hangover" films out of style. "Go try to be funny nowadays with this woke culture, Philips said. There were articles written about why comedies dont work anymoreIll tell you why, because all the f---ing funny guys are like, F--- this s---, because I dont want to offend you. Its hard to argue with 30 million people on Twitter. You just cant do it, right? So you just go, Im out."

Peter Farrelly - Comedy Classic: "Dumb and Dumber"/Dramatic Turn: "Green Book"

Yes, the guy who made "Dumb and Dumber" beat out "Roma" at the Oscars last year. And the tone between comedy and drama that director Peter Farrelly walks with "Green Book" helped his movie get made. Farrelly told Vulture he was able to pitch "Green Book" to studios based on the idea that a racial biopic is actually a buddy, road trip movie. And even though it deals with more dramatic fare, Farrelly still views his film as primarily lighter entertainment. Im sure there will be some criticism that [the film] is not authentic because its not dark enough, Farrelly told Newsweek, But thats not my style. Lighten upits only a movie, right?

Woody Allen - Comedy Classic: "Annie Hall"/Dramatic Turn: "Interiors"

Woody Allen found himself winning Oscars when he went beyond zany farces like "Sleeper" and "Love and Death" to telling more relatable stories like "Annie Hall" that blended comedy, drama and romance. But the prolific director would immediately follow up his Best Picture winner with a strictly dramatic take in the style of Ingmar Bergman films with his 1978 movie "Interiors." Movies like "Another Woman" and "Blue Jasmine" have further shown Allen stepping out of his comedic comfort zone.

Preston Sturges - Comedy Classic: "The Lady Eve"/Dramatic Turn: "Sullivan's Travels"

Preston Sturges, one of the signature directors of Old Hollywood, would likely still be admired today based solely on the success of his screwball comedies like "The Great McGinty" and "The Lady Eve." But he took a step up as an auteur with his 1941 more serious film "Sullivan's Travels." The film even breaks the fourth wall by telling an insider Hollywood story about a talented director who disguises himself as a hobo so he can learn about the true tragedies of the modern world for his next film, only to find he can't ever escape Hollywood and his pigeon-holed place in the business.

Ben Stiller - Comedy Classic: "Zoolander"/Dramatic Turn: "Escape at Dannemora"

In an interview with CBS News, Ben Stiller didn't fault anyone for not knowing what to expect when he took on the job of directing the prison break miniseries "Escape at Dannemora." In fact, Stiller was out of the country shooting "Zoolander 2" when the real life events of the series took place. While he's veered between more dramatic roles as an actor, he teased to CBS News that he might "possibly" be considering retirement from broad comedies altogether.

Paul Feig - Comedy Classic: "Bridesmaids"/Dramatic Turn: "A Simple Favor"

Paul Feig certainly has not strayed from making comedies, but he felt the urge to tackle a Hitchcockian thriller with just a dash of comedic elements with his film "A Simple Favor." In an interview with EW, he explained he's always tried to make genre films and finding the comedy within those tropes. "How do you walk that line where you can push the edge of the tone but you dont spill over out of it so that you take the audience out of it? So this was definitely the biggest tonal tightrope," Feig told EW.

David Dobkin - Comedy Classic: "Wedding Crashers"/Dramatic Turn: "The Judge"

Though music videos and comedies allowed Dobkin to break into the industry, he had been plotting a pivot to drama with the Robert Downey Jr. film "The Judge" as far back as 2006 and before he began production on "Fred Claus," according to an interview with HuffPost. However, his next film finds him squarely back in comedy with the Will Ferrell parody film "Eurovision."

Peter Farrelly, Adam McKay and Ben Stiller have all found awards love after turning to more dramatic movies

While some filmmakers get their starts making cheaply made B-movies or horror films, there's a new crop of directors emerging who previously cut their teeth making classic comedies. And while most haven't abandoned their sense of humor entirely, they've finally been recognized at both the box office and awards circuit by veering into prestige pictures. The latest example is Todd Phillips, the director of "Joker," which as the darkly disturbed origin story of the iconic Batman villain is no laughing matter. Here are some other directors who have re-emerged as more than just funny men.

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Jay Roach vs Todd Phillips on Whether 'Woke Culture' Is Killing Comedy Movies - TheWrap