In March of this year, Mark Vande Hei returned to earth after spending 355 days in outer space. Today on the show, I talk to Mark about what it was like to spend nearly a year in orbit, and how he ended up setting a new record for the longest spaceflight by an Americanastronaut. We first talk about how Mark went from being a soldier in the Army who served twice in Iraq, to working for NASA. Mark explains the application process for becoming anastronautand what he thought were the hardest parts of his training. He then shares how you exercise in space, what a typical work day on the International Space Station is like, and how it feels to do a space walk. I ask Mark whether he wasworried when the Russians threatened to abandonhim in space, whether life on the space station is hard on morale, what its like physically to returnto earth, and whether theres a letdown when its time to hang up yourastronautpack.
Photo Credit: NASA
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Brett McKay: Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of The Art of Manliness podcast. In March of this year, Mark Vande Hei returned to earth after spending 355 days in outer space. Today on the show I talk to Mark about what it was like to spend nearly a year in orbit, and how he ended up setting a new record for the longest space flight by an American astronaut.
We first talk about how Mark went from being a soldier in the Army, he served twice in Iraq, to working for NASA. Mark explains the application process for becoming an astronaut and what he thought were the hardest parts of his training. He then shows how you exercise in outer space, what a typical work day in the International Space Station is like, and how it feels to do a space walk.
I ask Mark whether he was worried when the Russians threatened to abandon him in space, whether life on the space station is hard to morale, what its like to physically return to Earth, and whether its a let down when its finally time to hang up your astronaut pack. After the shows over check at our show notes at aom.is/space.
Mark Vande Hei, welcome to the show.
Mark Vande Hei: Well thanks, Brett. Its great to be here.
Brett McKay: So you are an astronaut and you just got back in March from a nearly year-long stay in the International Space Station, and were gonna talk about it cause thats an American record. Well talk about the day, how that happened. But before we do, lets talk about just being an astronaut, how long youve been an astronaut, whats kind of the stuff youve been doing as an astronaut?
Mark Vande Hei: Oh, I became an astronaut in 2011. Prior to that, I was an astronaut candidate here at Johnson Space Center, started in 2009. And from 2011 on, a lot of its maintenance training, trying to make sure youre ready for a space flight, and I served as the director of Operations in Russia for a year, so I spent that year in Star City, Russia, where the three members that were then assigned to launch in a Soyuz spacecraft to get to the space station were training. That was definitely a highlight for me of that time.
I also studied Russian a lot, quite honestly, in the intervening years. Theres a lot of neutral buoyancy lab training we do to get ready for spacewalks, thats a big part of it, and thats some of the recurring training I mentioned. And probably about once a month, I would do a public affairs event, where I go and talk to anything from organization to elementary school.
Brett McKay: How many missions have you flown as an astronaut?
Mark Vande Hei: I have flown two, both to the space station and both getting there and back on a Soyuz spacecraft.
Brett McKay: Gotcha. And so is being an astronaut, is this like, were you like a typical kid who, When I grow up, I wanna be an astronaut.? Was that something youve always wanted to do, or did it just kind of happened?
Mark Vande Hei: It wasnt something that I wanted to do, only because I didnt think it was possible. It was I think I was just trying to be too cool. I didnt want to say I wanted to be an astronaut some day, cause it felt a lot like saying I wanted to be Spider-Man or Superman someday, and it just, that wasnt something that I thought made sense.
I still am quite shocked that I actually have gotten to be an astronaut, and even getting to go through the interview process to be an astronaut I thought was amazing, and being able to say that Ive actually been to space as long as I have, Im still a little puzzled by that.
Brett McKay: Well, whats interesting about you and your career, unlike a lot of astronauts who get to NASA via the Air Force, theyre a pilot or fighter pilot, something like that, you had a military career but it was through the Army. So how did the Army lead you to NASA? Cause you typically dont think of Army and space in the same thing.
Mark Vande Hei: Yeah. Actually, we have pretty consistently had at least one Army officer in most, not every, but most astronaut candidate classes. Its something that the Army, unlike the other services though, initially it wasnt getting very well represented and we dont have high performance jet pilots in the Army. So in that regard. And that was what NASA is looking for initially, almost exclusively.
So at some point, if I understand correctly, the Army said, Hey, what can we do? Weve got some really good people, and then I think the Johnson Space Center director at the time said, Why you let us borrow a few of them, and then well see how they do? And so we would send typically helicopter pilots eventually, once that was a thing for the Army, sent in helicopter pilots here, and again, they werent high performance jet pilots, but they were great leaders and did a wonderful job, and so that was a way to get those folks in.
And for me, it was kind of a strange path. I had switched Because I got the opportunity to go to grad school as part of the preparation to teach at West Point, I was in grad school studying physics and the physics as I was most interested in was space physics. And then at the same time I was in grad school, the Army opened up a new career field called Space Operations, and I recognized that I was gonna spend five years away from the tactical environment I was familiar with in academia, and recognized that was gonna potentially, in a 20-year career that was gonna set me back quite a bit.
So when Space Operations came up as a possibility, I thought, Wow, I should This is something that might be uniquely suited to help out with. So I checked into it, I thought it sounded really interesting, and I managed to become a Space Operations Officer. And then it turned out that because this whole field was new, there was an Army astronaut who was talking to the general in charge of Army space operations and are talking about this new career field and how it would be nice to have the ability to broaden the experience base of Space Operations offices by having one of them actually work at the astronaut office and be exposed to human space flight in that regard, and then come back to the Army.
And so, shockingly at some point, I got invited to work at NASA, when I always thought it would be cool to work at NASA, but I never thought it would actually happen. So thats kind of a long story for how I ended up working at NASA in the first place. I actually started working at NASA in 2006.
Brett McKay: So youre more of like a liaison between the Army and NASA?
Mark Vande Hei: Actually, what I did when I was working here as what we call an engineer in the astronaut office was I was working as a capsule communicator, so my job was to have the astronauts perspective and work in the mission control center and understand enough of what the mission control, the flight controllers were talking about in the mission control team.
So that when the flight director said, Tell the crew this, I understood well enough what that was about to be able to explain to the crew. Which was a fantastic job. Youre sitting Youre communicating, history is happening, youre getting to watch what theyre doing in space as part of your work day. I just, I loved it. It was fantastic.
Brett McKay: Tell me a bit more about space operations in the Army. This is new to me, I didnt know this existed. What is the Army trying to do with space operations?
Mark Vande Hei: Granted, I have been out of it for quite a while, because the last time I was really involved in Army space operations was prior to 2006, so a lot of it might have changed, but the Army recognized that there is a lot with all the digitization thats coming on, that the Army can take great advantage of assets in space. But we werent really doing a good job of influencing investments in space that would benefit the Army, so we recognized that was a lack.
So that was part of it, getting some people in the Army, all with some experience in the field, pretty fairly senior officers at least with 10 years under their belt, typically back then, getting involved in space operations. And space operations in the Army was We could provide some promotional imagery, for example. There are some detection assets that we had access to.
Theres satellite communications we could help out with. It was really to help the military units were supporting take full advantage of the space assets that are available to the country.
Brett McKay: Gotcha. Okay, so you end up at NASA, youre working there, an opportunity arises for you to apply to be an astronaut. Whats the application process like? Its very thorough, I imagine.
Mark Vande Hei: Yeah, it actually starts out with something pretty simple. Its just you go to usajobs.gov, and its the same application process that you use if you want to be a fireman for the federal government. Every federal government job is out there, including astronaut. So thats where you start. And if you make it through the thousands of applications to actually get an interview, then it definitely gets more intense.
Brett McKay: How long does the application process take?
Mark Vande Hei: Oh gosh, its probably on the order of more than six months, I would think, because And thats really because every one of those applications gets reviewed by somebody, and weve had up to 18,000 applicants in some recent classes. And that process gets the, that number down to about 400 that are considered really highly qualified, and then we start checking references. And after that, once the references have been checked, well pick a 120 people or so to actually start coming in for the first round of interviews.
Brett McKay: Thats really competitive. And then so theres multiple rounds of interviews, and I imagine theres tests involved too. Are they doing psychological tests to make sure this is your fit for this position?
Mark Vande Hei: There are definitely psychological tests, and Im not sure if this is a good idea, but I admitted during my first interview week that after three hours of filling in the dots, I stopped. So at first, every dot I filled in I thought, What are they gonna think about me when I put this in there? and I was really, really putting a lot of thought into everything. And then after three hours of that I just didnt care.
I just wanted to finish the darn thing. So I told them that they had definitely gotten the real me at some point because I was, I just was exhausted by the process.
Brett McKay: Alright, so you go through this process, youre selected. Lets talk about training to become an astronaut. Now, I imagine a lot of people who apply to be an astronaut, theyve been training to be an astronaut their entire lives, either physically training and doing all the math and getting hours in the cockpit. What did your training look like after you got picked?
Mark Vande Hei: After I got picked. So weve got this astronaut candidate time period, you effectually call the people that are in that situation, you call them ass cans.
Its two years where you are Almost everybody passes. We have had some people not make it through. The training is everything you need to do to demonstrate potential to be assigned to a space flight. So we train people on EVAs in our neutral buoyancy lab, in a very large pool. We And when I say EVAs, I mean spacewalks.
We train people on the International Space Station systems, and when we had a shuttle program, were training people on the shuttle system as well. So whatever spacecraft we have available, we train people on those systems. We use a T-38, thats a NASA jet, that helps get people in an operational mindset.
The other things we do, weve got robotics training, thats a very challenging task too, learning how to operate the robotic arm that we have on the space station, so we put people through a course on that. And then its, our space station program is an international program so, and theres a lot of training that happens in Russia. So a big part of the training is a learning Russian, and that is no small task either.
Brett McKay: Are you now fluent in Russian?
Mark Vande Hei: I would say I have been pretty fluent in Russian, but its a surprisingly perishable skill. I think the most fluent I was in Russian was on the day I launched for my first flight. Because I had spent so much time in Russia learning how to be a co-pilot for a Russian spacecraft, and I felt pretty comfortable.
I was fluent enough to be able to talk on the radio very publicly, to make reports about their spacecraft in Russian and understand what they were saying. So in some regards yes, but theres so much further to go. Theres certainly topics, many, many topics I could get into where I would be very clueless about how to communicate.
Brett McKay: Weve had another astronaut on the podcast, and he mentioned part of the training was like wilderness survival training. Did you do that?
Mark Vande Hei: We have what we call Land Survival Training. Im not sure, I think youre talking about Terry Virts, is that correct?
Brett McKay: Yeah, yeah, correct. Yeah.
Mark Vande Hei: Yeah, I listened to that podcast too. [chuckle] And actually, I was an office neighbor with Terry for a while. We do land survival training up in Maine, and back then, at least we used to, I think its changed now, it used to be run by the Navy. I think we switched down to the Army at Fort Rucker in Alabama. Alabama, I hope Im saying the right thing.
Brett McKay: Out of all the stuff you had to do, this two-year process, what was the most difficult component of your training that you had?
Mark Vande Hei: Oh I would say both the Russian and EVA training. And theyre very different. The EVA training, the space walk training is very physically demanding, but its also very mentally demanding, so its a combination of being in good enough shape to have enough mental capacity left over to do the right things in an environment where you really do not wanna mess that up.
And then the Russian is just so humbling. Its one of those things where I think if youre a person who really likes to know that youve got a grasp on this and this is gonna work out, its just something about language just feels like Its shocking that it works, but you dont Its either there or its not. Its a skill, and you dont really know Im not sure how to describe it. Its just challenging.
Brett McKay: So being in space without gravity is surprisingly hard on the body, and were gonna talk about that here in a bit. So what did you do as far as fitness training to get ready for a space mission?
Mark Vande Hei: I always liked exercising, so I dont think I changed anything specifically to get ready for a space flight, I just did the variety. I would look Honestly, I would look at the CrossFit website, Im not trying to condone any products, but they had a variety of workouts and I would pick one of their workouts and I would go for it.
I did recognize at my age if I try to do the prescribed workout set, I would hurt myself. So I recognized that if I hit muscle failure five times, it was time to stop that exercise or drop the weight to half of what I was doing, something like that. So I certainly had a learning process with how to survive those workouts.
Brett McKay: Does NASA just have astronauts prepare physically on their own, or do they set out like, Heres a suggested workout plan.? Or is it like, Well, its up to you.? It sounds like you just did whatever you wanted to do.
Mark Vande Hei: I did. Theres a wide variety of enthusiasm about exercise in the astronaut office, and certainly people tend to be much more on the fit side, but some people like to work out in the facilities we have here on Johnson Space Center, other people like to do it at home or in a different facility.
The nice thing is youve got a lot of resources here to help you out, so weve got some strength and conditioning and rehab specialists that are fantastic coaches. In fact, one of the things Ive been working on is snatches lately, and the strength coach that helps out, hes fantastic, so thats just a wonderful resource.
Brett McKay: Well, lets talk about exercise in space. What does that look like and how do you do that in zero-G?
Mark Vande Hei: Great question. We have three devices we use for exercise on the space station. One of them is called ARED, it means Advanced Resistive Exercise Device. Its a very large device we use for, the closest we can get to weightlifting, cause weightlifting doesnt really makes sense in space.
So the way it works, the way I like to describe it is imagine that you have a seesaw and theres a kid on the other side thats pulling up on their end of the seesaw and you wanna pull up on your end of the seesaw, and that kid always applies the same amount of force. So if you put the fulcrum right in the middle, youre gonna pull on To change the position of that seesaw youre gonna have to exert a little more force than the kid on the other side of the seesaw.
But lets say you wanna vary that, you can change the pivot point between you and that kid, and then you can make it a very small amount of force to a very large amount of force based on what mechanical advantage or disadvantage you give yourself. So hopefully that helps you visualize what Im talking about, but the way it works is we have that lever arm with a pivot point thats adjustable and allows us to change the force from 20 pounds to 600 pounds.
And that kid on the other side of the seesaw is a couple of vacuum cylinders. So when you pull up on the bar or the cable that youre pulling up on, you are forcing a couple of plates that are being pushed on by the air pressure in the space station, and thats what provides the force.
Brett McKay: What kind of things were you doing with this thing? Squats, shoulder presses?
Mark Vande Hei: You can do squats, shoulder presses, dead lifts, Romanian dead lifts. Curls, crunches, bench press.
Brett McKay: Pretty much anything.
Mark Vande Hei: Pretty much, although we tried doing things like thrusters, where you use the cable and you put the bar on your shoulders and go from a deep squat into a standing position with the bar over your head, but having that cable run across your chest and across your face makes it not quite the right position, so I actually didnt like doing that in the launcher. And then for another thing, I tried doing kettlebell swings using the cable, but you dont have momentum like you would. Thats one thing we really dont have.
So in a kettlebell swing, that momentum that you generate with your hips and your legs prevents you from, ideally prevents you from having to use your shoulders as much, but it started feeling like it was just a front raise for me when I was trying to do a kettlebell swing.
Brett McKay: So you got this resistance device. What other devices you have on there for physical fitness?
Mark Vande Hei: Weve got two devices we use for cardiovascular fitness. One is T2, its a treadmill, and thats interesting in space, because if you just ran on a treadmill, as soon youve pushed off with your foot, you would depart the treadmill. So what we have is a, what I would describe as a backpacking harness minus the backpack.
And that is a fairly comfortable harness which we attached some chains to on the side, and those chains attach to bungee cords, and you can adjust the length of the chains because in that case it changes the length of the bungee cords, and that allows you to adjust to At my height, it was about upto 130 pounds of force, so it still wasnt as much as I actually weight.
But I talked to Weve got some pretty impressive athletes in the astronaut office, and one of them mentioned to me that they actually just added a second set of bungee cords and doubled it, and I was blown away. Cause for some reason 130 pounds, it feels a lot like youre wearing 130 pounds on your back and your hips. So its not comfortable at all. It really starts to wear
In fact, there was I went for a two-hour walk one time, and by the time I finished, those hip pads had worn a hole in the skin on my hips. So its not comfortable, I was not a big fan of it. Although Ill tell you what, if I ever get to weigh only 80 pounds, I can run really, really fast.
Brett McKay: Whats the other cardio device?
Mark Vande Hei: The other cardio device is called CVIS, I dont know what every letter in the acronym means. But its an ergometer, its a bicycle. A bicycle without a seat cause you dont need it. And I love that one, thats a really challenging exercise device. You can go up to 350 watts. And yeah, I really got some brutal thigh burning workouts of that machine.
Brett McKay: And so this physical activity during space is important because when youre up in space, what happens to your body in zero-G?
Mark Vande Hei: Yeah, humans are very adaptable, so we adapt quickly to the space environment. Which means your body recognizes you dont need the skeletal structure to help you be able to stand upright on the floor, and you dont need as much musculature, so very quickly all those things would atrophy, and so its very, very important to workout.
Because of that, every single day NASA schedules an hour and a half for resistive exercise and an hour for the cardio exercise. Sometimes actually, because again I like exercising, I would try to do two hours of resistive exercise instead of an hour and a half, and I actually got up earlier in the morning just to be able to try to do that.
Brett McKay: Were gonna take quick break for a word from our sponsors.
And now back to the show. So when you went to space, what was your job on the space station? Why were you there and what were you doing?
Mark Vande Hei: Everything every crew member is doing on the space station is to support the science mission that weve got. Theres science were doing to help with exploration, theres science were doing that actually helps people out on the ground today. Theres technology demonstrations, for example, as well.
Every crew member, I think of them as laboratory technicians, where were not the scientist per se, were not the ones who design the experiments, a lot of times we dont do any observations or gather data for the experiments, and were certainly not analyzing the data and writing papers about those experiments later, the scientists are doing all that.
Were just making sure that what theyve dedicated so much of their life to is functioning as well as possible on the space station. Well help troubleshoot, make sure they have all the resources they need, and things like that.
Brett McKay: So what did a typical work day look like for you? What time would you wake up? Thats another thing, I guess time is different up in outer space, but how long was a work day for you?
Mark Vande Hei: The work day officially starts with a morning planning conference, typically at 07:30 in the morning, and ends with an evening planning conference that finishes around 07:30 at night. And that sounds like a really long day. Those are only the weekdays. Ideally, Monday through Friday would be that. We have weekends off with a couple hours of house cleaning on the weekend.
But in that 12 hours on a weekday, weve got an hour for lunch, and weve got the two and a half hours I mentioned for exercise. So it ends up being about an eight and a half hour work day.
Brett McKay: So you did space walks. What was your first space walk like? And did you have any sort of spiritual or awe-inspiring experience with it?
Mark Vande Hei: Its definitely awe-inspiring. I would say the spiritual stuff that I ran into was just looking out the windows on the space station before the space walks actually happened. I would say So as far as the emotions associated with doing a space walk, you study a lot to make sure youre ready, cause its a very public eight-hour shift, or six and a half hours, seven hour shift working outside.
The first emotion I remember is the sense of the lighting changing inside of the crew lock. So imagine youre in this clunky space suit with another crewmate and youre head to toe, and the more experienced crew member or the person in charge of the space walk is the one who opens the hatch.
And so on my first space walk I was EV-2, extra vehicular crew member number two, the less experienced person, and I didnt have my face over the hatch, I had my feet over the hatch. But when Randy Bresnik, was in charge of that EVA, opened up that hatch, there was the bright light shining, reflecting off of the Earth into that space that previously just had artificial lighting, and it was clearly outdoor lighting, it was like looking through a storm door on a winter day in Minnesota. It was just very bright all of a sudden, an I had the sensation that, Whoa, thats outside, and this is real, this is really gonna happen.
Once I actually got outside, it was nighttime, which probably made it a little bit easier on me, and the neutral buoyancy lab that I mentioned earlier, does such a good job of making us familiar with the terrain of the outside of the space station that that seemed like a very familiar environment. And all I can say about Its just hard to get your head wrapped around the distances that youre looking at.
When youre holding onto a spacecraft going at 5 miles a second and its dark outside, its just, the distance between you and the Earth is hard to grasp. The distance between you and the stars, this vast openness that youre in this space suit in. Its hard to get your head wrapped around it. And honestly you got a lot of work to do so you dont wanna spend too much time trying to dwell on it.
Brett McKay: Yeah. And some people dont realize this about the EVAs, this is a gruelling thing. Youre in there, like you said, for six hours.
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Podcast #815: What It's Like to Spend a Year in Space - Art of Manliness